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Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647]

Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

The people in some states allow gay rights to trump religious freedoms. Gotcha !

There is no religious freedom to discriminate. You are not separating religious belief from business practices. Don't let gays into your church. Fine. Can't do that with a business though.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

You obviously cannot distinguish between them. Then again...somewhere you believe there is a "natural right" to discriminate. I find that absolutely hilarious.

So what you wish to tell me is that if other people are responsible for the creation of your rights that they are more than just privileges. Please, share exactly how that is possible.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

I guess it depends on who you think is being discriminated against. Those who have decided that gay rights trump religious freedom means the one who is denied the ability to live out his moral convictions is the one being discriminated against.

What gay rights are trumping religious freedom? We are talking about a business.

Should religious freedom win out if a person wanted to put up a cross with Jesus hanging on it on the wall and have monks chanting/singing as music in their office at work?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

You obviously cannot distinguish between them. Then again...somewhere you believe there is a "natural right" to discriminate. I find that absolutely hilarious.

Well, if you can laugh at something as staid as reality you'll never be bored.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Christ taught no such thing....and I venture to say....Jesus Christ would be appalled at the idea of someone using his name to promote bigotry and discrimination. Study the life of Jesus Christ and you will understand why I say that.

Jesus to some, Yeshua to others practiced Judaism.

The Torah (first five books of the Hebrew Bible) is the primary source for Jewish views on homosexuality. It states that: "[A man] shall not lie with another man as [he would] with a woman, it is a תועבה toeba ("abomination")" (Leviticus 18:22). (Like many similar commandments, the stated punishment for willful violation is the death penalty, although in practice rabbinic Judaism no longer believes it has the authority to implement death penalties.)

Orthodox Judaism views homosexual acts as sinful. Conservative Judaism has engaged in an in-depth study of homosexuality since the 1990s with various rabbis presenting a wide array of responsa (papers with legal arguments) for communal consideration. The official position of the movement is to welcome homosexual Jews into their synagogues, and also campaign against any discrimination in civil law and public society, but also to uphold a ban on anal sex as a religious requirement.

The first people to evangelize what became known as Christianity were Jews. They too practiced Judiasm. And in the Epistles of the New Testament, the sentiments that homosexuality is a sin as is incest relations are part of the teachings. People whose religious beliefs are founded in these teachings have every right in this country to express them, without being labeled hate speech, and to live their life that reflects their moral conscience. To force them to do things that violates that conscience violates their freedom of religion.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

What gay rights are trumping religious freedom? We are talking about a business.

Should religious freedom win out if a person wanted to put up a cross with Jesus hanging on it on the wall and have monks chanting/singing as music in their office at work?

I know....as I posted earlier, it seems (we'll stick with bakeries here) that religious bakery owners (Muslim, Christian, etc.)...

--have no issues creating wedding cakes for athiests.

--Or Jews refusing to make Christmas cakes (Jewish bakeries back East rock!).

--Muslim bakers refusing to make christening cakes for baby girls

--I thought Grant's example was good, a Muslim bakery refusing to create a cake saying Jesus is Savior for a Christian church gathering.

-- Or Muslims or Christians to refuse making a cake for a barmitzvah (sp).

How often do you hear of these things? Ever? Businesses are in business to DO BUSINESS, not support their own agendas.

At it's most basic, several religions dont believe in the right or choice of others to practice OTHER religions. (Christians and Muslims, for ex)...so how can you justifying serving others outside your religion at all? You are supporting their ability to exist as infidels or in sin (or whatever).

To live in this country and run a business....you need to set aside such extreme beliefs if you hold them. It's called 'tolerance.' As a Christian, I think the bakers in this story are wrong because God claims he is the ultimate judge and he gave us all free will. He didnt give other people permission to judge OR control other people's free will.
 
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Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Well, if you can laugh at something as staid as reality you'll never be bored.

I enjoy when people laugh at themselves without even realizing it. His argument basically amounts to that we are all slaves to the state, but I doubt he even knows why.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Jesus to some, Yeshua to others practiced Judaism.

The Torah (first five books of the Hebrew Bible) is the primary source for Jewish views on homosexuality. It states that: "[A man] shall not lie with another man as [he would] with a woman, it is a תועבה toeba ("abomination")" (Leviticus 18:22). (Like many similar commandments, the stated punishment for willful violation is the death penalty, although in practice rabbinic Judaism no longer believes it has the authority to implement death penalties.)

Orthodox Judaism views homosexual acts as sinful. Conservative Judaism has engaged in an in-depth study of homosexuality since the 1990s with various rabbis presenting a wide array of responsa (papers with legal arguments) for communal consideration. The official position of the movement is to welcome homosexual Jews into their synagogues, and also campaign against any discrimination in civil law and public society, but also to uphold a ban on anal sex as a religious requirement.

The first people to evangelize what became known as Christianity were Jews. They too practiced Judiasm. And in the Epistles of the New Testament, the sentiments that homosexuality is a sin as is incest relations are part of the teachings. People whose religious beliefs are founded in these teachings have every right in this country to express them, without being labeled hate speech, and to live their life that reflects their moral conscience. To force them to do things that violates that conscience violates their freedom of religion.

Exactly why religion is not the basis of our society or our Constitution.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Exactly why religion is not the basis of our society or our Constitution.

Exactly what is the basis of society? :lol: This is just another instance of you not understanding what things actually are. Let me guess, you don't have a clue what I'm talking about right now.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

I know....as I posted earlier, it seems (we'll stick with bakeries here) that religious bakery owners (Muslim, Christian...) have no issues creating wedding cakes for athiests. Or Jews Christmas cakes (Jewish bakeries back East rock!), Muslim bakers refusing to make christening cakes for baby girls, and I thought Grant's example was good, a Muslim bakery refusing to create a cake saying Jesus is Savior for a Christian church gathering. Or Muslims or Christians to refuse making a cake for a barmitzvah (sp). How often do you hear of these things? Ever? Businesses are in business to DO BUSINESS, not support their own agendas.

At it's most basic, several religions dont believe in the right or choice of others to practice OTHER religions. (Christians and Muslims, for ex)...so how can you justifying serving others outside your religion at all? You are supporting their ability to exist as infidels or in sin (or whatever).

To live in this country and run a business....you need to set aside such extreme beliefs if you hold them. It's called 'tolerance.' As a Christian, I think the bakers in this story are wrong because God claims he is the ultimate judge and he gave us all free will. He didnt give other people permission to judge OR control other people's free will.
It really comes down to the fact that in today's world....those who are most likely to stand on the corner of the public square and proclaim their "Christianity" to the world, are almost always, without fail, those who know the least about Jesus Christ and live their lives almost diametrically opposed to his teachings.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Exactly what is the basis of society? :lol: This is just another instance of you not understanding what things actually are.

Its the reason that our Country was founded on the idea that the state should not sponsor a religion. Because there are too many different religions and interpretations. A wise decision.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Its the reason that our Country was founded on the idea that the state should not sponsor a religion. Because there are too many different religions and interpretations. A wise decision.

:lamo What? Dude, there is no basis. That is the whole point. Jesus dude. You guys seriously don't understand the basics.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Jesus to some, Yeshua to others practiced Judaism.

The Torah (first five books of the Hebrew Bible) is the primary source for Jewish views on homosexuality. It states that: "[A man] shall not lie with another man as [he would] with a woman, it is a תועבה toeba ("abomination")" (Leviticus 18:22). (Like many similar commandments, the stated punishment for willful violation is the death penalty, although in practice rabbinic Judaism no longer believes it has the authority to implement death penalties.)

Orthodox Judaism views homosexual acts as sinful. Conservative Judaism has engaged in an in-depth study of homosexuality since the 1990s with various rabbis presenting a wide array of responsa (papers with legal arguments) for communal consideration. The official position of the movement is to welcome homosexual Jews into their synagogues, and also campaign against any discrimination in civil law and public society, but also to uphold a ban on anal sex as a religious requirement.

The first people to evangelize what became known as Christianity were Jews. They too practiced Judiasm. And in the Epistles of the New Testament, the sentiments that homosexuality is a sin as is incest relations are part of the teachings. People whose religious beliefs are founded in these teachings have every right in this country to express them, without being labeled hate speech, and to live their life that reflects their moral conscience. To force them to do things that violates that conscience violates their freedom of religion.

Just to be clear, "freedom of religion" doesn't mean that Jews can kill homosexuals.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

:lamo What? Dude, there is no basis. That is the whole point. Jesus dude.

Considering that you believe there is a "natural right" floating around out there somewhere to freely engage in discrimination that trumps the Constitution and the laws of this Country simply shows either your ignorance or your desperation....not sure which though.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Considering that you believe there is a "natural right" floating around out there somewhere to freely engage in discrimination that trumps the Constitution and the laws of this Country simply shows either your ignorance or your desperation....not sure which though.

Are you really this ignorant? Did you ever read the DOI? Where did those ideas come from? Need a hint?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

I know....as I posted earlier, it seems (we'll stick with bakeries here) that religious bakery owners (Muslim, Christian, etc.)...

--have no issues creating wedding cakes for athiests.

--Or Jews refusing to make Christmas cakes (Jewish bakeries back East rock!).

--Muslim bakers refusing to make christening cakes for baby girls

--I thought Grant's example was good, a Muslim bakery refusing to create a cake saying Jesus is Savior for a Christian church gathering.

-- Or Muslims or Christians to refuse making a cake for a barmitzvah (sp).

How often do you hear of these things? Ever? Businesses are in business to DO BUSINESS, not support their own agendas.

At it's most basic, several religions dont believe in the right or choice of others to practice OTHER religions. (Christians and Muslims, for ex)...so how can you justifying serving others outside your religion at all? You are supporting their ability to exist as infidels or in sin (or whatever).

To live in this country and run a business....you need to set aside such extreme beliefs if you hold them. It's called 'tolerance.' As a Christian, I think the bakers in this story are wrong because God claims he is the ultimate judge and he gave us all free will. He didnt give other people permission to judge OR control other people's free will.

yep reminds me of the religious org that owned a pavilion and rented it out to the public all the time there, all types of events were held there of non religious matters and many different religious matters but as soon as gays wanted to use it it was MAGICALLY a sin and against their religious beliefs, complete horse ****. Its nothign but masking bigotry.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Are you really this ignorant? Did you ever read the DOI? Where did those ideas come from? Need a hint?

Oh...I get it.....you are one of those "Federalist" fringers.....that believe that the Constitution doesn't really exist. Now I know where you are coming from.

Then again....weren't you the one earlier that believes that nothing in the Constitution exists after article 12?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Oh...I get it.....you are one of those "Federalist" fringers.....that believe that the Constitution doesn't really exist. Now I know where you are coming from.

What? That has nothing to do with what I said. Want that hint I offered you? Consider it a privilege I'm allowing you.

Then again....weren't you the one earlier that believes that nothing in the Constitution exists after article 12?

No, I wasn't.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Are you really this ignorant? Did you ever read the DOI? Where did those ideas come from? Need a hint?

speaking of not remembering what was in the Declaration of independence:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

speaking of not remembering what was in the Declaration of independence:

Yes, all men are created with the right to control access to their property.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Yes, all men are created with the right to control access to their property.

Discrimination is not the act of equality...
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Yes, all men are created with the right to control access to their property.

:roll:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

i don't see property in that statement of unalienable rights.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

speaking of not remembering what was in the Declaration of independence:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal"


i think the fine print says except those we view as lesser and in its time it left out woman for a reason. ;)

some people simply support and or want to empower bigotry and discrimination and the infringement of rights
some people simply are not interested in the fellow americans sharing the same rights they have, they feel they are not worthy
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

:roll:


i don't see property in that statement of unalienable rights.

What do you think pursuit of happiness includes? Property? Indeed.

You might also want to figure out the basis of the other two on the list. :D
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Discrimination is not the act of equality...

If everyone has the same rights then they are indeed equal.
 
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