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Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647]

Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

No. What they said was that if you are selling cakes to the public then you must do so to all of the public. You cannot use race, religion, ethnicity, gender or gender preference as the basis to refuse service to some customers. You cannot say, sorry we do not serve (insert any subset of the public) - your kind must shop elsewhere.

Yes they are being forced to do business even though it goes against their moral beliefs. What good is it to have the rights freedom of religion and property if you are not permitted to practice them? These laws only apply to 21 states. That still leaves 29 states where people can move where such laws do not exist or stay where they are and find ways around them or get active and fight to overturn them. The federal law does not prohibit discrimination by sexual orientation.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Yes they are being forced to do business even though it goes against their moral beliefs. What good is it to have the rights freedom of religion and property if you are not permitted to practice them? These laws only apply to 21 states. That still leaves 29 states where people can move where such laws do not exist or stay where they are and find ways around them or get active and fight to overturn them. The federal law does not prohibit discrimination by sexual orientation.

What religion says that selling cakes to homosexuals is taboo?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Yes they are being forced to do business even though it goes against their moral beliefs. What good is it to have the rights freedom of religion and property if you are not permitted to practice them? These laws only apply to 21 states. That still leaves 29 states where people can move where such laws do not exist or stay where they are and find ways around them or get active and fight to overturn them. The federal law does not prohibit discrimination by sexual orientation.


Actually, there are Public Accommodation laws in all 50 states that require businesses to not discriminate against their moral beliefs.



>>>>
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

What religion says that selling cakes to homosexuals is taboo?
To some, it is a sin to participate in a homosexual marriage and providing services for it is the same as participation. Whether you agree with them or not they have the constitutional right to hold onto that belief. But sadly now those that do either provide cakes for gays or face a year in prison. If a baker can be forced to bake a gay wedding cake… why not a cake with a pentagram on it? Why not a cake that says Allah Akbar or God is Dead?

If we’ve decided that religious freedom doesn’t exist except to protect mosques from government surveillance, then where is the line drawn?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

A good point. The shopkeeper could have insisted they were rude to him, called him names, swore, spit on the floor, or any number of things. Instead he told the truth and took the hard way.

Yes, good point. The baker could have stuck to his "principles" and lied
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

To some, it is a sin to participate in a homosexual marriage and providing services for it is the same as participation. Whether you agree with them or not they have the constitutional right to hold onto that belief. But sadly now those that do either provide cakes for gays or face a year in prison. If a baker can be forced to bake a gay wedding cake… why not a cake with a pentagram on it? Why not a cake that says Allah Akbar or God is Dead?

If we’ve decided that religious freedom doesn’t exist except to protect mosques from government surveillance, then where is the line drawn?

A Muslim would be within their rights to bring awareness that an American bakery refused to make them a cake that said that...and an athiest might have a case against the second phrase as well. (And why would a bakery, esp. one run by the religiously minded, object to a cake that said, God is great? It's even the same God as the Christian Almighty).
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Yes they are being forced to do business even though it goes against their moral beliefs.

No, they are being forced to obey the law.

What good is it to have the rights freedom of religion and property if you are not permitted to practice them?

Baking a cake is not a religious practice
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

If a baker can be forced to bake a gay wedding cake…

Wedding cakes are not gay

why not a cake with a pentagram on it? Why not a cake that says Allah Akbar or God is Dead?

No one is forcing the baker to provide a type of cake he does not already produce for others.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Ask Mellisa of "Sweetcakes by Mellisa" who closed their shop in a similar case when business dropped off.


>>>>
So the marketplace worked. No government intervention was required.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

To some, it is a sin to participate in a homosexual marriage and providing services for it is the same as participation. Whether you agree with them or not they have the constitutional right to hold onto that belief. But sadly now those that do either provide cakes for gays or face a year in prison. If a baker can be forced to bake a gay wedding cake… why not a cake with a pentagram on it? Why not a cake that says Allah Akbar or God is Dead?

If we’ve decided that religious freedom doesn’t exist except to protect mosques from government surveillance, then where is the line drawn?

Unable to supply such a religion, you now change the subject to assert that these "undefined" religious beliefs trump the consumer rights of others. You may believe, as some Muslims assert, that infidels should be killed but that is not allowed because of the rights of mere infidels - that are not simply trumped to allow Muslims to be properly religious. If I invent a religious belief that commands me to chant endlessly in your church - is that protected too?

EDIT: When rights seem to conflict that is when we use judges.
 
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Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

A Muslim would be within their rights to bring awareness that an American bakery refused to make them a cake that said that. (And why would a bakery, esp. one run by the religiously minded, object to a cake that said, God is great? It's even the same God as the Christian Almighty).

Do you think a Muslim bakery should be forced to write "Jesus is Our Savior" on one of their cakes? Would they be taken to court and would there be protests outside the shop?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Do you think a Muslim bakery should be forced to write "Jesus is Our Savior" on one of their cakes? Would they be taken to court and would there be protests outside the shop?

Yes, if the Muslim bakery has a history of making "Savior Cakes' for other people
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Do you think a Muslim bakery should be forced to write "Jesus is Our Savior" on one of their cakes? Would they be taken to court and would there be protests outside the shop?

What makes you think they would need to be forced?

But the law applies equally to them.

Edit: Jesus is a great respected prophet in Islam, even if not considered the savior, btw. How about Happy Hannukah? lol
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

No, they are being forced to obey the law.



Baking a cake is not a religious practice

To you Sanga baking a cake for a wedding isn't a religious practice, but to those who believe it as an act of participation that could violate their beliefs it does become a problem.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Yes, if the Muslim bakery has a history of making "Savior Cakes' for other people

Why would that make a difference where the law is concerned?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

The solution is simple. If you don't want to comply with the laws of this country, then don't open a business. Simple as that.


NAILED IT!!!

this is exactly right
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

To you Sanga baking a cake for a wedding isn't a religious practice, but to those who believe it as an act of participation that could violate their beliefs it does become a problem.

Under the law, baking a cake is not a religious practice even if the greedy bigots think otherwise
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

What makes you think they would need to be forced?
Okay, I'll try to make it easier. If a Muslim bakery refuses to write "Jesus Is Our Savior" on a cake intended for a Church social should they be forced to do so? Or would fair minded people respect their feelings on the issue?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Okay, I'll try to make it easier. If a Muslim bakery refuses to write "Jesus Is Our Savior" on a cake intended for a Church social should they be forced to do so? Or would fair minded people respect their feelings on the issue?

If they have produced "Jesus Is Our Savior" cakes for others, then they must provide them for the church social

Cut and run again??

No
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

I don't see the on going problem here. Don't open a business if you find a problem with the laws. Complaining later is stupid.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Unable to supply such a religion, you now change the subject to assert that these "undefined" religious beliefs trump the consumer rights of others. You may believe, as some Muslims assert, that infidels should be killed but that is not allowed because of the rights of mere infidels - that are not simply trumped to allow Muslims to be properly religious. If I invent a religious belief that commands me to chant endlessly in your church - is that protected too?

You need a name of a particular religion, start with Catholics.

Why the Catholic Church and ‘gay marriage’ cannot coexist - CNA Blog

As far as your comments on infidels, we have laws on the books that do not tolerate physical attacks on other persons.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

No one is being treated as less than a full person. Now if gay people were being treated like 3/5 of a person as Black slaves once were, then you might have a point but that isn't the case. At times there are conflicts between us in our view of what is moral. The question that should be asked is it moral to force another by law to do something that is against their own conscience? The answer should be NO! As marriage continues to be redefined who knows what it will look like in twenty years. Already there are groups of people in this country that don't see it morally wrong for incest relationships and want to know why there are laws on the books to forbid it. There are others who do not find it morally wrong to engage in polygamy and want to know why there are laws that forbid them in such relationships. It isn't a far leap before some judge somewhere will rule incest relations and polygamy legal. It is happening all over the world. Not if but when that happens, and a father and daughter wanting to get married, and the baker refuses to bake them a cake because he finds their relationship immoral, then the baker could be hauled into court for saying no. It is coming for those business owners who believe marriage to be between a man and a women will no longer offer their services to the public. The wedding planners, the photographers, the bakers, caterers will solely work with private organizations that share their same belief system.

The answer, when the rights of one conflict with the rights of another, should be decided by a judge. Your right to freely swing your arm ends where my nose begins. ;)
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

If they have produced "Jesus Is Our Savior" cakes for others, then they must provide them for the church social

Not even just a "Jesus Is Our Savior" cake... just a cake in which any religious figure is idolized, or religion in general.
 
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