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Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647]

Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

the couple were paying for the bakers service, what reason did the baker have to deny the couple a cake even though they were willing to pay for it.

It's their business, their ingredients, their labor. What reason did the gay couple have to believe they had right over another's labor and property?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Since you choose not to recognize that this same treatment would be unacceptable and illegal for women and blacks in CO, then there's no point in my responding further. Even if you choose not to recognize gays as deserving of the same civil rights as other Americans, the state of CO does...and that is what the judge's ruling is based on.

So you dont even have an argument at this point. Carry on.....

Do you not see the difference between gender and skin color and gays?

People were born with a gender and their skin color.

These people are gay because of their actions.

Let me be clear (I am challenging Obama) I believe people are born gay, however nobody would know they were gay unless they told that person.

You can't hide the fact that you are a woman or black.

Do you really not see the difference between something you are born with and actions?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

It's their business, their ingredients, their labor. What reason did the gay couple have to believe they had right over another's labor and property?

Exactly. When we force people to act against their beliefs, or use sledgehammer laws, only bitterness and divisiveness results.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

The only right to commerce you have is to commence commerce with those that consent to do commerce with you.

Nope. Not in America. Under our laws, if you want to commence commerce you consent to do commerce with anyone who walks through your doors.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Do you feel that only Gays support Gay rights?

No but if people like the cake from that store they will buy it.

Do you think people go to a bakery to get involved in a political fight?

I don't believe that 100% of people support the gays like we are led to believe.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

You have a right to your beliefs and wishes, but sorry...that is not the law in America.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

It's their business, their ingredients, their labor. What reason did the gay couple have to believe they had right over another's labor and property?

if they were denied service because they were bad customers that is understandable. if they were denied service because they regular harassed the business, that is understandable.

what did the couple do to the baker to refuse them service?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Government force against our rights is government force against our rights is government force against our rights.

But you DON'T have the right to discriminate....that is just plain and simply the law. So there is no "government force" against a right that doesn't exist.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Do you not see the difference between gender and skin color and gays?

People were born with a gender and their skin color.

These people are gay because of their actions.

Let me be clear (I am challenging Obama) I believe people are born gay, however nobody would know they were gay unless they told that person.

You can't hide the fact that you are a woman or black.

Do you really not see the difference between something you are born with and actions?


We already covered this. (And there's SO much wrong with that post that I cant be bothered to deal with it, like people having to hide who they are. Tell that to the Jews. But it's outside the scope of this thread)

But here, try this: Religious people are religious because of their actions too. And no one would know it. And they are a protected class.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Nope. Not in America. Under our laws, if you want to commence commerce you consent to do commerce with anyone who walks through your doors.

That is obviously untrue.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

if they were denied service because they were bad customers that is understandable. if they were denied service because they regular harassed the business, that is understandable.

what did the couple do to the baker to refuse them service?

A good point. The shopkeeper could have insisted they were rude to him, called him names, swore, spit on the floor, or any number of things. Instead he told the truth and took the hard way.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

A good point. The shopkeeper could have insisted they were rude to him, called him names, swore, spit on the floor, or any number of things. Instead he told the truth and took the hard way.

the baker had done business with gay customers before, why did he refuse to make a wedding cake?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Exactly. When we force people to act against their beliefs, or use sledgehammer laws, only bitterness and divisiveness results.

I do agree with this in many ways. You cannot legislate how people feel.

However it cannot be denied that over time, much of that dissipates as there is social acceptance....*most* people no longer resent blacks or women *stepping out of their places* and fighting for their civil rights. The anti-discrimination laws, IMO, are working. Are we all the way there? No. But great progress, societally, as been made.

But just like in the early 1900's and then the 1960s, many people refused to even see that women and blacks were deserving of social and legal equality...they just wanted them to shut up and go away. Personally, I find it embarrassing when I look back on the struggles of whites to prevent blacks from integrating better into society...like they were just ignorant and intolerant, bigoted and short-sighted. And it pisses me off that future generations will likely look back on our generation(s) the same way regarding civil rights for gays. It wont even be an issue for them!
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Nope. Not in America. Under our laws, if you want to commence commerce you consent to do commerce with anyone who walks through your doors.

So what you're saying is that people are forced into commerce at the behest of others.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

I do agree with this in many ways. You cannot legislate how people feel.

However it cannot be denied that over time, much of that dissipates as there is social acceptance....*most* people no longer resent blacks or women *stepping out of their places* and fighting for their civil rights. The anti-discrimination laws, IMO, are working. Are we all the way there? No. But great progress, societally, as been made.

That has to do with education, not anti-discrimination law. You don't seem to have any understanding of how social issues are dealt with.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

So what you're saying is that people are forced into commerce at the behest of others.

No. What they said was that if you are selling cakes to the public then you must do so to all of the public. You cannot use race, religion, ethnicity, gender or gender preference as the basis to refuse service to some customers. You cannot say, sorry we do not serve (insert any subset of the public) - your kind must shop elsewhere.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

the baker had done business with gay customers before, why did he refuse to make a wedding cake?

Probably because he is not against Gays but only, like Barrack Obama once was, against Gay marriage. It was also Bill Clinton who signed the Defense of Marriage act. It seems that the baker's feelings were shared by other people, and with far more influence..
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Please tell me where there is institutional discrimination against gays in the US.


30+ States passed laws discriminating against homosexuals in the realm of Civil Marriage.


>>>>
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

gays are an extremely small part of the overall population.

Why would people stop shopping there because of this?


Ask Mellisa of "Sweetcakes by Mellisa" who closed their shop in a similar case when business dropped off.


>>>>
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

That argument doesn't wash because that would indicate that the shopkeeper would have to sell to anybody that came through the door.

Shopkeepers refuse service to people all the time.


Public Accommodation laws, such as this one in Colorado do not state the businesses owners have to "sell to anybody that came through the door".

Public Accommodation laws only restrict the reasons that businesses can use in denying services.


>>>>
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

No. What they said was that if you are selling cakes to the public then you must do so to all of the public. You cannot use race, religion, ethnicity, gender or gender preference as the basis to refuse service to some customers. You cannot say, sorry we do not serve (insert any subset of the public) - your kind must shop elsewhere.

Oh right, they have to figure out ways around the force of the state to deny people service and practice their right to commence in commerce with only those they consent to.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

So what you're saying is that people are forced into commerce at the behest of others.

Not at all. What I am saying is that if you choose to engage in commerce, then you must do so in accordance with the laws of this great country. In other words, business owners are not free to pick and choose which laws they want to follow based on their own individual "morality". They are free to have their own individual religious views in their private lives, but they are not free to use their religion as a shield to circumvent the laws and promote their bigotry. This is nothing new to America...this has been the law dating back to the civil rights legislation that came out of the sit-ins in the late 50's.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Probably because he is not against Gays but only, like Barrack Obama once was, against Gay marriage. It was also Bill Clinton who signed the Defense of Marriage act. It seems that the baker's feelings were shared by other people, and with far more influence..

Why would making a wedding cake for a gay couples wedding be so contreversial for the baker?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Why would making a wedding cake for a gay couples wedding be so contreversial for the baker?

Being against Gay Marriage is hardly 'controversial' as recent Presidents have all been against it. Pro Gay marriage seems controversial also.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Why would making a wedding cake for a gay couples wedding be so contreversial for the baker?

Because it is difficult for bigots to understand that the world does not revolve around them.
 
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