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Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647]

Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Lursa said:
The state does not recognize selective morality...or religion....and so neither does it's contracts (business licenses). If you want to operate a business in that state, you must abide by it's laws.

You sound like you are proposing 'separate but equal,' which we all know is not equal and SCOTUS did not support that either.
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You, as are many others, are confusing the rights of the baker with the idea that we support or condone his behavior. I certainly don't.

But we have to allow him or her their rights,just as we allow others those rights, despite not agreeing with them.

I would not patronize this bakery if I knew what was going on and, I suspect, nor would many others.. The marketplace rather than the courts would solve this problem. Any business that refuses to sell their goods to certain groups will soon be out of business. Self interest will eventually overcome these petty bigotries.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Lursa said:
Was it an insult to blacks when women fought for their civil rights?
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This is nt about women or Blacks.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

disneydude said:
I'm sure the bigots of Rosa Parks day thought that she was being just as ridiculous. The bottom line is Bigotry is Bigotry is Bigotry and sometimes you have to stand up against it.
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Exactly!

"Oh she could have just moved a few steps further and taken her seat at the back of the bus. They were all going to the same place, she'd still get there. But no, she had to make a big fuss!" /sarcasm
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

sangha said:
Thanks but I don't need your permission to do what is right.
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So imposing force on others is right? Interesting logic. You can argue that it's necessary, but you can not argue it's right.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Grant said:
This is nt about women or Blacks.
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That's right, it's about a group fighting for their civil rights just like women and blacks did in this country. Yet you continue to say it is not the same. YOU chose to minimize their struggle and their rights in America.

It was super 'inconvenient' when blacks and women fought for their rights...in the streets and in the courts...too. Didnt make it wrong.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Henrin said:
So imposing force on others is right? Interesting logic. You can argue that it's necessary, but you can not argue it's right.
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So it's not right to force someone not to have sex with underage children? I mean, according to you, forcing people to do things is bad. The government should stay out of marriage and abortion to. Interesting logic you have there.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Lursa said:
Was it an insult to blacks when women fought for their civil rights?
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Do you believe you have a right to enter and use other peoples property and make the owners of that property provide your service? Furthermore, you do feel you have a right to maintain your employment when the owners of that property no longer want to employee you? You should perhaps change the term "civil rights" to something that more accurately describes it.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Grant said:
This is nt about women or Blacks.
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Sure it is. It is about people standing up for their civil rights.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

disneydude said:
Wrong. They are free to their beliefs. No one is preventing that. What they are NOT free to do is to use their religion as a shield to promote their bigotry.
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Let's get something perfectly clear. Bigotry is the state of mind of a bigot: someone who, as a result of their prejudices, treats or views other people with fear, distrust, hatred, contempt, or intolerance on the basis of a person's opinion, ethnicity, race, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, disability, socioeconomic status, or other characteristics. Being a state of mind, what one person believes is bigotry another may not. It is not illegal for a person to be bigoted toward certain groups. You have that right under the 1st amendment. However, you cannot threaten people or condone violence. You are just as bigoted toward the religious views of others as you claim them to be against gays. You state these religious people have the right to their beliefs but you are refusing them the right to practice them.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

disneydude said:
Sure it is. It is about people standing up for their civil rights.
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What rights are those?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Grant said:
You, as are many others, are confusing the rights of the baker with the idea that we support or condone his behavior. I certainly don't.

But we have to allow him or her their rights,just as we allow others those rights, despite not agreeing with them.
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I make such personal and political distinctions all the time, in my personal and voting behavior.

However I do believe in anti-discrimination laws, so I support this. I also support the state requiring a business to follow the legal stipulations in a contract that protects the public...meaning the business owner must comply.

Those stipulations, laws, and guidelines also cover health inspections, OSHA, building and fire codes, etc etc etc. The business owner must comply with all of those to remain open.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Henrin said:
Do you believe you have a right to enter and use other peoples property and make the owners of that property provide your service? Furthermore, you do feel you have a right to maintain your employment when the owners of that property no longer want to employee you?
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Yep...if they open their doors to the public, they have to comply with the laws of this Country. Regarding the right to employment....it depends on why they are firing you. If they do so based on job performance I wouldn't have a beef. If they fired me or refused to hire me because I was black, latino, female, gay...yes, then I would take issue with it...because again, you aren't free to set your own rules in the marketplace. You wanna take advantage to everything this country has to offer? Great....but don't expect that you can choose which rules/laws you want to follow and then try to hide behind the shield of your religion to avoid those you don't happen to like.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Henrin said:
Do you believe you have a right to enter and use other peoples property and make the owners of that property provide your service? Furthermore, you do feel you have a right to maintain your employment when the owners of that property no longer want to employee you? You should perhaps change the term "civil rights" to something that more accurately describes it.
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if i am being denied a service even though i am a paying customer, i at least need to know why i am being denied service.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Henrin said:
What rights are those?
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Specifically here we are talking about the rights of commerce. The right to not be discriminated against by a bigoted business owner....related to the same issue that was raised by the lunch counter sit-in in the late 50's.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

disneydude said:
Specifically here we are talking about the rights of commerce. The right to not be discriminated against by a bigoted business owner....related to the same issue that was raised by the lunch counter sit-in in the late 50's.
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The only right to commerce you have is to commence commerce with those that consent to do commerce with you.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

disneydude said:
The ruling in is. Chalk another one up for the good guys
Colorado judge: Bakery owner discriminated against gay couple - Washington TimesA Colorado judge ruled Friday against a bakery owner who refused to prepare a cake for a gay couple’s wedding reception.

Administrative Law Judge Robert N. Spencer ordered Jack Phillips, owner of Masterpiece Cakeshop in Lakewood, to “cease and desist from discriminating against complainants and other same-sex couples by refusing to sell them wedding cakes or any other product [he] would provide to heterosexual couples.”


Read more: Colorado judge: Bakery owner discriminated against gay couple - Washington Times
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Another ruling that bigotry will no longer be tolerated in America. If this baker is truly concerned about his religious beliefs....perhaps he should start by trying to be more "Christ-like" and try living the principles that Jesus Christ taught.
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I don't like this sort of crap. No one has right to another's property and labor, and that is what this is all about. I believe the bakery should be allowed to refuse service to anyone they want. It's their business, their product, their ingredients.

I think this is pointless whining and people thinking that just because someone has a different opinion and practices that they should be forced to adopt there own. It's thought control and nothing more. This can be better handled through intelligent consumerism than it can government force.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Grant said:
We\re talking about prejudice against Gays, and the legalization of their murder, and Muslims are the center of such odious behavior. Have you ever spoken up against their bigotry?
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I must have missed when lynching blacks was legal in this country, at least after slavery was ended.

People beat up and even kill gays in this country frequently, specifically based on their orientation, and only OUR LAWS keep more of that from happening more. It is not legal nor morally condoned.

The difference is that some other countries do not have such laws. That has nothing to do with discrimination and equal rights in this country....they dont even have the concept of equal rights.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

disneydude said:
Sure it is. It is about people standing up for their civil rights.
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Standing up for government usurping our natural rights is more like it.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Ikari said:
Standing up for government usurping our natural rights is more like it.
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The only "natural right" you have is death.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

disneydude said:
Bigotry is Bigotry is Bigotry.
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Government force against our rights is government force against our rights is government force against our rights.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

clownboy said:
The only "natural right" you have is death.
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Life, liberty, and property. But whatever.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Ikari said:
Life, liberty, and property. But whatever.
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Those aren't natural rights but those guaranteed by government. That's why the topic concerns civil rights.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

clownboy said:
Those aren't natural rights but those guaranteed by government. That's why the topic concerns civil rights.
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Those are not granted by government. In fact when government encroaches too grievously upon them, the People are justified in revolt. That cannot happen if they are granted by government. And by mere fact you claim rights are granted by government demonstrates that you do not understand the fundamental concept of rights. You're looking for the word "privilege". You do not believe in rights, you believe in government granted privilege.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

vesper said:
And the laws being passed are not protecting the rights of all citizens. For every baker that refuses to bake a cake for a gay couple due to religious convictions there are two more bakers out there that would gladly take their business. Your intolerance to not allow a person the right to moral conscience in my opinion is probably the most intolerant act of all because you want to force them to violate their very being in the name of some misguided law. Disgusting.
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How do you know that? You do not and in some areas of this country...where things are more spread out or more conservative or both, they may not have other choices.

And the point is....a few decades ago, almost no bakeries would have baked any cake for a gay couple (no weddings at that time). Then as society became more enlightened, more bakeries might do so, and then more and then more. Until people dont think twice about serving blacks or Jews or gays....that is the goal anyway. (yes, bakery was just a convenient example here.)
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Lursa said:
How do you know that? You do not and in some areas of this country...where things are more spread out or more conservative or both, they may not have other choices.

And the point is....a few decades ago, almost no bakeries would have baked any cake for a gay couple (no weddings at that time). Then as society became more enlightened, more bakeries might do so, and then more and then more. Until people dont think twice about serving blacks or Jews or gays....that is the goal anyway. (yes, bakery was just a convenient example here.)
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What does any of that have to do with government? You do realize you are explaining social acceptance right? We don't need laws to accomplish such goals.
 
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