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Thread: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647]

  1. #81
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    re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Duh he discriminated...and there is nothing wrong with it.
    "I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." -Thomas Sowell

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    re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfoot 88 View Post
    Duh he discriminated...and there is nothing wrong with it.
    Except for the part where he violated state law.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

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    re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Discrimination is against the law? WTF? You mean I cannot go into a shoe store and buy which sneakers I want, or when I choose one car over another at the lot...I cannot discriminate? Discrimination is what we all do when we choose one thing over another, that is not inherently evil, my man. That is being smart.

    You think we don't "discriminate" against murderers, pedophiles, rapists, thieves... sorry, they do not all just willy-nilly get their way... and what you are advocating is that we discriminate in favor of the homosexual over the one standing up for their religions rights... it is just plain absurd the idea that anything anybody wants they just get or its considered "discrimination".

    Come on, you are more intelligent than that.
    I'm pretty sure you know exactly what I mean and diluting it with unlikely examples (sneaker choices?) doesn't alter reality. I'm not advocating anything. I'm simply citing laws that are already established, well established, and have endured the tests of time and the courts. It may offend your sensibilities - after all it's your business, these are your employees, these are your customers - but despite that, you can not legally refuse to hire or service people based on your personal beliefs or prejudices. You don't have to like someone. You don't need to be friends with them, you can pray for their destruction in your heart. But what you can't do (legally) is refuse to hire or sell to them. I had very, very, very little to do with this legislation. I was in Vietnam when the Civil Rights Act passed. In the nearly 50 years that have gone by since, this has been more and more refined. Not by me - by the courts.

    Why has this happened? What brought on these laws? Anecdotally, 2 things influenced me. One, I got off a bus from NYC in Kansas City MO. I saw WHITE and COLORED restrooms. The other thing I remember was that in NYC, a bastion of progressiveness, it was illegal to serve alcohol to a homosexual.

    Sure, my anecdotes are pithy but I'm trying to say that there was a great deal of injustice not all that long ago. So, you may see extreme responses as the pendulum swings. In another 100 years, nobody will remember that only men and women could get married. Or Old Black Joe still picking cotton.

    The laws of the land. Not the laws of Specklebang. I'd make a marvelous dictator but I can't figure out how to get the job.

  4. #84
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    re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Except for the part where he violated state law.
    Oh, I don't care. Law doesn't determine right and wrong.
    "I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." -Thomas Sowell

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    re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    The ruling in is. Chalk another one up for the good guys
    Colorado judge: Bakery owner discriminated against gay couple - Washington TimesA Colorado judge ruled Friday against a bakery owner who refused to prepare a cake for a gay couple’s wedding reception.

    Administrative Law Judge Robert N. Spencer ordered Jack Phillips, owner of Masterpiece Cakeshop in Lakewood, to “cease and desist from discriminating against complainants and other same-sex couples by refusing to sell them wedding cakes or any other product [he] would provide to heterosexual couples.”


    Read more: Colorado judge: Bakery owner discriminated against gay couple - Washington Times
    Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter



    Another ruling that bigotry will no longer be tolerated in America. If this baker is truly concerned about his religious beliefs....perhaps he should start by trying to be more "Christ-like" and try living the principles that Jesus Christ taught.
    People generally ought to have the right to refuse to do business with anyone, for whatever reason they choose with no obligation to disclose their reasoning, and the government should have no say in the matter whatsoever. If we are free, then we should have the right to discriminate for such reasons as seem good to us in our private and business matters.

    A case could be made I suppose for greater restrictions on the actions of incorporated businesses, which require a charter.

    But a privately run bakery should definitely have the right to refuse to engage in a transaction with people that they deem to be perverts. And no one else should have any say other than whether or not they wish to do business with them in future.

    We're free or we aren't. Leftists of course, are contemptuous of actual freedom for people that they adjudge to be serfs at best. A category that most people naturally fall into.
    Quod scripsi, scripsi

  6. #86
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    re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    The bigotry lies in forcing someone to go against their beliefs via their private business to provide you with a service for something they believe is wrong.

    This goes beyond gay "rights" and gets into bullying through the courts.



    As others have said on this forum: Bigotry in the name of religion is still bigotry and if it violates the 1964 Civil Rights Act it's not going to continue in the USA.




    "Tolerance is giving to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself.' ~ Robert green Ingersoll

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    re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    You are kidding, right? Colorado has a nondiscrimination law that protects people from discrimination based on sexual orientation. That was the law that the baker violated. The baker had baked cakes for dog weddings, but he would not bake a cake for a gay wedding because the people who requested it were gay. That is pretty clear cut.

    What does a penis cake have to do with denying people services because they are gay? And do you think Nazis are protected under Colorado's nondiscrimination law?
    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) what does an obscene cake have to do with illegal discrimination and or violation of equal rights?
    2.) also what does swastikas have to do with illegal discrimination and or violation of equal rights?

    there is no legal precedence between the things mentioned above and illegal discrimination and or equal rights.
    I would argue that the bakers refusal was not based on the sexual orientation of the customer but, rather, on the purpose to which they were going to put the cake. The customer didn't ask for just any cake. They wanted a cake to commemorate a wedding. It's perfectly reasonable that a heterosexual individual requesting such a cake would also be refused that service under some circumstances. The objection was not, as far as I can tell, based on the sexual orientation of the customer.

    the pertinent part of the statute is here -
    (2) It is a discriminatory practice and unlawful for a person, directly or indirectly, to refuse, withhold from, or deny to an individual or a group, because of disability, race, creed, color, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, national origin, or ancestry, the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of a place of public accommodation or, directly or indirectly, to publish, circulate, issue, display, post, or mail any written, electronic, or printed communication, notice, or advertisement that indicates that the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of a place of public accommodation will be refused, withheld from, or denied an individual or that an individual's patronage or presence at a place of public accommodation is unwelcome, objectionable, unacceptable, or undesirable because of disability, race, creed, color, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, national origin, or ancestry.
    Colorado Revised Statutes

    I don't see anywhere in that statute where a "public accommodation" can't refuse goods or services based on what they will be used for. Now, if a homosexual walked into the bakery and said "I am getting married to an opposite sex partner and want a cake" and that request was refused simply on the basis that the individual was a homosexual that would be a different story.

    Is that splitting hairs? Yep, but it's the way things are supposed to work.

  8. #88
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    re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    So...does he deny people of other religious faiths of having wedding cakes?

    The problem here is you are trying to make a ludicrous case for the guy, when the only people he was discriminating against in this matter was a gay couple. If he had made cakes only for fellow Christians then he might have had a case, but it was pretty clear that he was discriminating against these customers because they were gay, not out of religious principle.
    One would rationally guess that would depend on what his/her religious faith declares...is there someplace in the Bible, Koran, Torah, etc... that would indicate to you that this is the case, that one can only make cakes for fellow Christians... or are you just making something up, just a superfluous nonexistent hypothetical that has nothing to do with reality? If so, don't waste our time.

    Listen, sorry, we all have religious freedom, and that is certainly is not unimportant and far from ludicrous... you should not denigrate so...and one most assuredly cannot force another to do something in complete conflict and contravention of their faith... what would be the logical basis for that?

    And your last statement, speaking of ludicrous, is particularly specious.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    As others have said on this forum: Bigotry in the name of religion is still bigotry and if it violates the 1964 Civil Rights Act it's not going to continue in the USA.




    "Tolerance is giving to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself.' ~ Robert green Ingersoll
    There is a right to be served?
    "I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." -Thomas Sowell

  10. #90
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    re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfoot 88 View Post
    Oh, I don't care. Law doesn't determine right and wrong.
    True. In that regard I agree with you. I don't see anything wrong with discrimination. I just think that if people are going to be free to discriminate then it should be the whole deal. Race, sex, religion, sexual orientation, etc. businesses should be able to discriminate on the basis of all of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

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