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Thread: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647]

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    The people in some states allow gay rights to trump religious freedoms. Gotcha !
    There is no religious freedom to discriminate. You are not separating religious belief from business practices. Don't let gays into your church. Fine. Can't do that with a business though.
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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    You obviously cannot distinguish between them. Then again...somewhere you believe there is a "natural right" to discriminate. I find that absolutely hilarious.
    So what you wish to tell me is that if other people are responsible for the creation of your rights that they are more than just privileges. Please, share exactly how that is possible.

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    I guess it depends on who you think is being discriminated against. Those who have decided that gay rights trump religious freedom means the one who is denied the ability to live out his moral convictions is the one being discriminated against.
    What gay rights are trumping religious freedom? We are talking about a business.

    Should religious freedom win out if a person wanted to put up a cross with Jesus hanging on it on the wall and have monks chanting/singing as music in their office at work?
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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    You obviously cannot distinguish between them. Then again...somewhere you believe there is a "natural right" to discriminate. I find that absolutely hilarious.
    Well, if you can laugh at something as staid as reality you'll never be bored.

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Christ taught no such thing....and I venture to say....Jesus Christ would be appalled at the idea of someone using his name to promote bigotry and discrimination. Study the life of Jesus Christ and you will understand why I say that.
    Jesus to some, Yeshua to others practiced Judaism.

    The Torah (first five books of the Hebrew Bible) is the primary source for Jewish views on homosexuality. It states that: "[A man] shall not lie with another man as [he would] with a woman, it is a תועבה toeba ("abomination")" (Leviticus 18:22). (Like many similar commandments, the stated punishment for willful violation is the death penalty, although in practice rabbinic Judaism no longer believes it has the authority to implement death penalties.)

    Orthodox Judaism views homosexual acts as sinful. Conservative Judaism has engaged in an in-depth study of homosexuality since the 1990s with various rabbis presenting a wide array of responsa (papers with legal arguments) for communal consideration. The official position of the movement is to welcome homosexual Jews into their synagogues, and also campaign against any discrimination in civil law and public society, but also to uphold a ban on anal sex as a religious requirement.

    The first people to evangelize what became known as Christianity were Jews. They too practiced Judiasm. And in the Epistles of the New Testament, the sentiments that homosexuality is a sin as is incest relations are part of the teachings. People whose religious beliefs are founded in these teachings have every right in this country to express them, without being labeled hate speech, and to live their life that reflects their moral conscience. To force them to do things that violates that conscience violates their freedom of religion.

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    What gay rights are trumping religious freedom? We are talking about a business.

    Should religious freedom win out if a person wanted to put up a cross with Jesus hanging on it on the wall and have monks chanting/singing as music in their office at work?
    I know....as I posted earlier, it seems (we'll stick with bakeries here) that religious bakery owners (Muslim, Christian, etc.)...

    --have no issues creating wedding cakes for athiests.

    --Or Jews refusing to make Christmas cakes (Jewish bakeries back East rock!).

    --Muslim bakers refusing to make christening cakes for baby girls

    --I thought Grant's example was good, a Muslim bakery refusing to create a cake saying Jesus is Savior for a Christian church gathering.

    -- Or Muslims or Christians to refuse making a cake for a barmitzvah (sp).

    How often do you hear of these things? Ever? Businesses are in business to DO BUSINESS, not support their own agendas.

    At it's most basic, several religions dont believe in the right or choice of others to practice OTHER religions. (Christians and Muslims, for ex)...so how can you justifying serving others outside your religion at all? You are supporting their ability to exist as infidels or in sin (or whatever).

    To live in this country and run a business....you need to set aside such extreme beliefs if you hold them. It's called 'tolerance.' As a Christian, I think the bakers in this story are wrong because God claims he is the ultimate judge and he gave us all free will. He didnt give other people permission to judge OR control other people's free will.
    Last edited by Lursa; 12-09-13 at 06:19 PM.
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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Well, if you can laugh at something as staid as reality you'll never be bored.
    I enjoy when people laugh at themselves without even realizing it. His argument basically amounts to that we are all slaves to the state, but I doubt he even knows why.

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Jesus to some, Yeshua to others practiced Judaism.

    The Torah (first five books of the Hebrew Bible) is the primary source for Jewish views on homosexuality. It states that: "[A man] shall not lie with another man as [he would] with a woman, it is a תועבה toeba ("abomination")" (Leviticus 18:22). (Like many similar commandments, the stated punishment for willful violation is the death penalty, although in practice rabbinic Judaism no longer believes it has the authority to implement death penalties.)

    Orthodox Judaism views homosexual acts as sinful. Conservative Judaism has engaged in an in-depth study of homosexuality since the 1990s with various rabbis presenting a wide array of responsa (papers with legal arguments) for communal consideration. The official position of the movement is to welcome homosexual Jews into their synagogues, and also campaign against any discrimination in civil law and public society, but also to uphold a ban on anal sex as a religious requirement.

    The first people to evangelize what became known as Christianity were Jews. They too practiced Judiasm. And in the Epistles of the New Testament, the sentiments that homosexuality is a sin as is incest relations are part of the teachings. People whose religious beliefs are founded in these teachings have every right in this country to express them, without being labeled hate speech, and to live their life that reflects their moral conscience. To force them to do things that violates that conscience violates their freedom of religion.
    Exactly why religion is not the basis of our society or our Constitution.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Exactly why religion is not the basis of our society or our Constitution.
    Exactly what is the basis of society? This is just another instance of you not understanding what things actually are. Let me guess, you don't have a clue what I'm talking about right now.

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I know....as I posted earlier, it seems (we'll stick with bakeries here) that religious bakery owners (Muslim, Christian...) have no issues creating wedding cakes for athiests. Or Jews Christmas cakes (Jewish bakeries back East rock!), Muslim bakers refusing to make christening cakes for baby girls, and I thought Grant's example was good, a Muslim bakery refusing to create a cake saying Jesus is Savior for a Christian church gathering. Or Muslims or Christians to refuse making a cake for a barmitzvah (sp). How often do you hear of these things? Ever? Businesses are in business to DO BUSINESS, not support their own agendas.

    At it's most basic, several religions dont believe in the right or choice of others to practice OTHER religions. (Christians and Muslims, for ex)...so how can you justifying serving others outside your religion at all? You are supporting their ability to exist as infidels or in sin (or whatever).

    To live in this country and run a business....you need to set aside such extreme beliefs if you hold them. It's called 'tolerance.' As a Christian, I think the bakers in this story are wrong because God claims he is the ultimate judge and he gave us all free will. He didnt give other people permission to judge OR control other people's free will.
    It really comes down to the fact that in today's world....those who are most likely to stand on the corner of the public square and proclaim their "Christianity" to the world, are almost always, without fail, those who know the least about Jesus Christ and live their lives almost diametrically opposed to his teachings.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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