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Thread: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647]

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    No. What they said was that if you are selling cakes to the public then you must do so to all of the public. You cannot use race, religion, ethnicity, gender or gender preference as the basis to refuse service to some customers. You cannot say, sorry we do not serve (insert any subset of the public) - your kind must shop elsewhere.
    Yes they are being forced to do business even though it goes against their moral beliefs. What good is it to have the rights freedom of religion and property if you are not permitted to practice them? These laws only apply to 21 states. That still leaves 29 states where people can move where such laws do not exist or stay where they are and find ways around them or get active and fight to overturn them. The federal law does not prohibit discrimination by sexual orientation.

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Yes they are being forced to do business even though it goes against their moral beliefs. What good is it to have the rights freedom of religion and property if you are not permitted to practice them? These laws only apply to 21 states. That still leaves 29 states where people can move where such laws do not exist or stay where they are and find ways around them or get active and fight to overturn them. The federal law does not prohibit discrimination by sexual orientation.
    What religion says that selling cakes to homosexuals is taboo?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Yes they are being forced to do business even though it goes against their moral beliefs. What good is it to have the rights freedom of religion and property if you are not permitted to practice them? These laws only apply to 21 states. That still leaves 29 states where people can move where such laws do not exist or stay where they are and find ways around them or get active and fight to overturn them. The federal law does not prohibit discrimination by sexual orientation.

    Actually, there are Public Accommodation laws in all 50 states that require businesses to not discriminate against their moral beliefs.



    >>>>

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    What religion says that selling cakes to homosexuals is taboo?
    To some, it is a sin to participate in a homosexual marriage and providing services for it is the same as participation. Whether you agree with them or not they have the constitutional right to hold onto that belief. But sadly now those that do either provide cakes for gays or face a year in prison. If a baker can be forced to bake a gay wedding cake… why not a cake with a pentagram on it? Why not a cake that says Allah Akbar or God is Dead?

    If we’ve decided that religious freedom doesn’t exist except to protect mosques from government surveillance, then where is the line drawn?

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    A good point. The shopkeeper could have insisted they were rude to him, called him names, swore, spit on the floor, or any number of things. Instead he told the truth and took the hard way.
    Yes, good point. The baker could have stuck to his "principles" and lied
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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    To some, it is a sin to participate in a homosexual marriage and providing services for it is the same as participation. Whether you agree with them or not they have the constitutional right to hold onto that belief. But sadly now those that do either provide cakes for gays or face a year in prison. If a baker can be forced to bake a gay wedding cake… why not a cake with a pentagram on it? Why not a cake that says Allah Akbar or God is Dead?

    If we’ve decided that religious freedom doesn’t exist except to protect mosques from government surveillance, then where is the line drawn?
    A Muslim would be within their rights to bring awareness that an American bakery refused to make them a cake that said that...and an athiest might have a case against the second phrase as well. (And why would a bakery, esp. one run by the religiously minded, object to a cake that said, God is great? It's even the same God as the Christian Almighty).
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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Yes they are being forced to do business even though it goes against their moral beliefs.
    No, they are being forced to obey the law.

    What good is it to have the rights freedom of religion and property if you are not permitted to practice them?
    Baking a cake is not a religious practice
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    If a baker can be forced to bake a gay wedding cake…
    Wedding cakes are not gay

    why not a cake with a pentagram on it? Why not a cake that says Allah Akbar or God is Dead?
    No one is forcing the baker to provide a type of cake he does not already produce for others.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Ask Mellisa of "Sweetcakes by Mellisa" who closed their shop in a similar case when business dropped off.


    >>>>
    So the marketplace worked. No government intervention was required.

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    To some, it is a sin to participate in a homosexual marriage and providing services for it is the same as participation. Whether you agree with them or not they have the constitutional right to hold onto that belief. But sadly now those that do either provide cakes for gays or face a year in prison. If a baker can be forced to bake a gay wedding cake… why not a cake with a pentagram on it? Why not a cake that says Allah Akbar or God is Dead?

    If we’ve decided that religious freedom doesn’t exist except to protect mosques from government surveillance, then where is the line drawn?
    Unable to supply such a religion, you now change the subject to assert that these "undefined" religious beliefs trump the consumer rights of others. You may believe, as some Muslims assert, that infidels should be killed but that is not allowed because of the rights of mere infidels - that are not simply trumped to allow Muslims to be properly religious. If I invent a religious belief that commands me to chant endlessly in your church - is that protected too?

    EDIT: When rights seem to conflict that is when we use judges.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 12-09-13 at 04:56 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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