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Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647]

Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Don't have to. The laws of our country protect our civil rights. Sorry if that bothers you. Get used to it.

You have no right to another's property or labor. Using the guns of government to make it so is just a form of tyranny.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Of course they shouldn't have to. But life isn't about the should. It's about rights, liberty and freedom. You cannot attack freedom merely because you do not like the results.

and that is exactly what the court said....thank you.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

You have no right to another's property or labor. Using the guns of government to make it so is just a form of tyranny.

OMG...back to the big bad government with their big bad guns paranoia. wow......
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

and that is exactly what the court said.....thank you.

You have no right to another's property or labor, no matter how much you wish it so. Using the guns of government to make it so is just a form of tyranny. You can't fight tyranny with tyranny, that's a ludicrous proposal.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Please quote me from the Bible regarding your claim.

Doesn't have to be the Bible:

“Religious groups distinguish between believers and non-believers and moral people and immoral ones,” Wood said. “So perhaps it’s no surprise that the strongly religious people in our research, who were mostly white Christians, discriminated against others who were different from them — blacks and minorities.” Most of the studies reviewed by Wood’s team focused on Christians because Christianity is the most common religion in the United States. Her analysis found significantly less racism among people without strong religious beliefs. Wood speculated that racist tendencies would not be limited to one religion: “All religions offer a moral group identity, and so across world religions — including Buddhism, Hinduism, Muslim, Judaism and Christianity — the religious ingroup is valued over outgroups.”

- See more at: USC News
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

OMG...back to the big bad government with their big bad guns paranoia. wow......

All government force is ultimately backed by the gun. As I said before (and as you ignore) don't comply and see what happens. I'll await your answer.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

All government force is ultimately backed by the gun. As I said before (and as you ignore) don't comply and see what happens. I'll await your answer.

Dude....your paranoia is controlling your life.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

No, government laws protect the rights and liberties of the individual. If you want to push your religious morals, keep them to yourself.

I am not religious. Government laws protect the rights and liberties of the individual in that they reflect or morals regarding rights and liberties... this is pretty basic.

Of course they shouldn't have to. But life isn't about the should. It's about rights, liberty and freedom.

Right... it is about rights, liberty and freedom that they have to not be discriminated against.

You cannot attack freedom merely because you do not like the results.

In instances like this not only could we but we should.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

:lol: No.

The baker is not being discriminated against by having to serve somebody he doesn't religiously think he should. That makes no sense! He IS THE ONE DISCRIMINATING.



With regards to the photographer I said pictures of lovely heterosexual ladies versus pictures of lovely homosexual ladies... you are saying that the photographer can discriminate, in that instance?
I see what you mean regarding my take on discriminating the baker's religion, sorry was in hurry trying to do several chores at one time.

I should say violating his religious belief through the judicial power. I think it's totalitarian tactics for the judicial branch to force a private business owner to cater to an event that runs contra to one's religious principle.

The baker was NOT discriminating the gay customers. He just just refused to be a part of the event. Event is not a person.

With regards to female bodies, as a professional photographer or artist I would serve the ladies, gay or straight, no difference. Just no men, gay or straight. Can the court force me to do otherwise?

I think I need to take a break and get busy with my other chores.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Dude....your paranoia is controlling your life.

It's not paranoia, it's a simple fact. Don't comply and see what happens.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

I see what you mean regarding my take on discriminating the baker's religion, sorry was in hurry trying to do several chores at one time.

I should say violating his religious belief through the judicial power. I think it's totalitarian tactics for the judicial branch to force a private business owner to cater to an event that runs contra to one's religious principle.

The baker was NOT discriminating the gay customers. He just just refused to be a part of the event. Event is not a person.

With regards to female bodies, as a professional photographer or artist I would serve the ladies, gay or straight on difference. Just no men, gay or straight? Can the court force me to do otherwise?

I think I need to take a break and get busy with my other chores.

Work on your analogies when you get finished......
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

No dude....its paranoia. The big bad government is not lurking behind every corner waiting to pull their guns on you. In fact 99.9999999% of government operates without any violence whatsoever. It is in the rare case that the government actually resorts to any force.

Most people in our society, follow the law.....not because they are afraid of the big bad government and their big bad guns...but actually because they believe in the concepts and understand that we need laws in a civilized society. Life is much better when you aren't paranoid that the government is coming after you every hour of the day.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

I am not religious. Government laws protect the rights and liberties of the individual in that they reflect or morals regarding rights and liberties... this is pretty basic.

The individual morals are designs of metaphysics and personal experience and are as varied as there are numbers of people. The government's sole responsibility is to our rights and liberties. Your religious crusade against bad thoughts is not proper concern of government.

Right... it is about rights, liberty and freedom that they have to not be discriminated against.

The government is not allowed to discriminate, and that's where it ends. Property and labor are fundamental rights and you cannot justly use government force against those because you feel everyone should be entitled to another's property and labor.

In instances like this not only could we but we should.

Incorrect, you will do nothing but enslave us all. It is our personal responsibility and duty to uphold our morals through the nonviolent use of consumer force. You cannot call down the force of government for everything you don't like, in a free society there will be much you do not like.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

No dude....its paranoia. The big bad government is not lurking behind every corner waiting to pull their guns on you. In fact 99.9999999% of government operates without any violence whatsoever. It is in the rare case that the government actually resorts to any force.

Most people in our society, follow the law.....not because they are afraid of the big bad government and their big bad guns...but actually because they believe in the concepts and understand that we need laws in a civilized society. Life is much better when you aren't paranoid that the government is coming after you every hour of the day.

Most people in our society follow the law because they know what happens when they don't. Have you tried it? Don't comply, see how long it lasts. It's an experiment, I mean you want to run your mouth about paranoia and blah blah blah, so you have nothing to worry about. Clearly you can resist and not comply and no force will be used against you. Just let me know how it turns out.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Most people in our society follow the law because they know what happens when they don't. Have you tried it? Don't comply, see how long it lasts. It's an experiment, I mean you want to run your mouth about paranoia and blah blah blah, so you have nothing to worry about. Clearly you can resist and not comply and no force will be used against you. Just let me know how it turns out.

Just more paranoia on your part. Most people are not "law breakers" by nature who only comply with the law because they are afraid of the big bad government and their big bad guns. Dude....any question that you aren't paranoid about the government is dispelled by your very own signature.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Just more paranoia on your part. Most people are not "law breakers" by nature who only comply with the law because they are afraid of the big bad government and their big bad guns. Dude....any question that you aren't paranoid about the government is dispelled by your very own signature.

Have you run the experiment yet, or are you still just deflecting? What happens when you do not comply, come on now, be honest and reply.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Have you run the experiment yet, or are you still just deflecting? What happens when you do not comply, come on now, be honest and reply.

LOL....ok....now that you are back to the government paranoia conspiracies....I'm done with you again.....see ya!
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

LOL....ok....now that you are back to the government paranoia conspiracies....I'm done with you again.....see ya!

Can't answer a simple question of what happens when you do not comply. Says a lot for your arguments. Run away if you wish, it was a simple question with an obvious answer you couldn't give.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

:lol: That doesn't show that I made a ridiculous and inaccurate statement.

Yea. I did.

I am for freedom of speech even if it is racist. Saying racist things does not violate anybody's rights. If a black guy wants to say that whites are whatever racist thing he wants, that is fine.

Sure.

What he can't do is talk about harming them, or hate speech.

Um. Actually he can. He can say any hateful thing he wants. As is his right. He can't threaten them, but he can say all the hate speech he wants.


This baker has the right to be the biggest bigoted scumbag on the planet.

Obviously not. If he did have a right to be so...he wouldn't have made a cake for 2 homosexual people.

What he does not have the right to do is to practice that bigotry by denying service to others...

He should be allowed to refuse service to anyone for whatever reason. He is a private business. At what point does this stop? This does not set a good legal precedent. And that is the point of contention. You want to claim someone is a "bigot" because they don't want government involvement in PRIVATE business.

I don't want any government interaction

Actually you do. So why say that?

..
but I am a realist and realize that without government interaction we will have rampant racism just like we used to. .

And do you think that that interaction has set up a good legal precedent for MORE government intervention? Do you think that LEGAL action was the only way to intervene in this baker's issue? Or do you think these 2 people could have gone elsewhere?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

and that is exactly what the court said.....thank you.

It actually said the opposite. It said, "if you disagree with someone you can take them to court and force them to serve you.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

It actually said the opposite. It said, "if you disagree with someone you can take them to court and force them to serve you.

No....what the court said is that in a free society, people are free to go about their business without facing discrimination in the marketplace. They also said that in a free society, society has a right to set laws to ensure that the rights of a free society to live free of discrimination. This is a victory for freedom and freedom loving Americans. A defeat for the bigots of the world.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Another point I wanted to address but had to leave for a while, you said: "Nobody is asking this baker to bake anything other than that which he normally produces in the course of business."

But, the gay customers and the judge did. What the baker in question normally produces in the course of business is wedding cakes for heterosexual weddings and not gay weddings.

Exactly correct. The business normally produces wedding cakes for it's customers.

The business refused to produce an equal product for homosexuals.

He discriminated based on sexual orientation and therefore violated Colorado Statute 24-34-601.


>>>>
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

No....what the court said is that in a free society, people are free to go about their business without facing discrimination in the marketplace. They also said that in a free society, society has a right to set laws to ensure that the rights of a free society to live free of discrimination. This is a victory for freedom and freedom loving Americans. A defeat for the bigots of the world.

So people are entitled to the property and labor of others is what you're saying.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

But you're making an argument based on false premise.

The baker clearly stated to the court that he was willing to bake birthday cakes, baby shower cakes for the gay couples, just not their wedding which was against his religious belief. Therefore, it has nothing to do with his like or dislike of the customers.

And here I thought we were getting close.

The basis for the discrimination was a product normally provided which was denied based on the sexual orientation of the customer.

Here is the law again: "(2) It is a discriminatory practice and unlawful for a person, directly or indirectly, to refuse, withhold from, or deny to an individual or a group, because of disability, race, creed, color, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, national origin, or ancestry, the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of a place of public accommodation or,..."

Providing some goods to straight couples and refusing those same services to gay couples is not "full and equal" conduct of the business.



>>>>
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Exactly correct. The business normally produces wedding cakes for it's customers.

The business refused to produce an equal product for homosexuals.

He discriminated based on sexual orientation and therefore violated Colorado Statute 24-34-601.


>>>>

That certainly is the law. Not exactly just since one has no right to another's property or labor, but laws don't always have to be just.
 
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