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Thread: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647]

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    So businesses owners on Oregon can simply claim that their moral conscience means they shouldn't treat blacks (or Jews, or Mexicans, or women, or the elderly, or the mentally handicapped, or women) and they can function outside the law?


    >>>>
    yep seems some people support this type of bigotry and discrimination and equal rights doesnt mean anything
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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The moral conscience of Christians tends to be out of favor with many. Would they object as strongly and go to court if the baker was a Muslim? I rather doubt it.
    wouldnt matter who it is, if the law is broken then you pay. Anti-discrimination laws protect us all.
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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Your hyperbole is over the top.
    translation: you dont want to answer the question
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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    It's been my observation.

    When was the last time you say a thread on Public Accommodation laws arguing for giving a special "moral conscience" exemption for anything other then being allowed to discriminate against gay people.

    Why is a claim of a personal "moral conscience" any more valid for same-sex couples any more valid then for moral conscience positions against interracial or inter-faith couples.

    >>>>
    Where was this observation made? Do you know any Gay people?

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Laugh all you want while history is being made and you and the rest of the Libertarians are watching from the sidelines.
    If society is anything it is you and me and everyone else in this world. That is the society of men if such a thing exists, but government? It is nothing but a problem that plagues us and keeps us from self governance. It is almost exclusively based on a logical fallacy that we have been raised to believe and yet have little reason to. The strange thing about government all the same, is that everyone knows in their heart something is wrong with the idea, and it truly sits well with no one, and yet almost everyone accepts it. I find myself growing uneasy with the compromise I made years ago when I considered it.
    Last edited by Henrin; 12-09-13 at 01:31 AM.

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Where was this observation made?
    Well I've lived in Guam, California, Tennessee, New York and Florida at various times over the last 50 years. I've also been stationed in Japan and visited Hong Kong, Singapore, Thailand, Australia, the Philippines, Diego Garcia, Saudi Arabia and Bahrain - but those are irrelevant to US laws.

    I've also been on message boards since 2004, so almost a decade, of watching.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Do you know any Gay people?
    As a matter of fact I do. What does that have to do with those claiming a "moral conscience" to discriminate against gays but who - in general - support Public Accommodation laws for other factors and only don't want them to apply to "the gheys"? I don't make the claim that such a position is 100%, but by personal observation it is the vast majority that want such special dispensation and have it apply to the gays.


    >>>>

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) yes im aware thats what thier claim is.
    2.) false nobody is forcing them, they must play by the same rules as us all, not getr special treatment they dont get to break the law or infringe on others rights. If they do that they will be CHOOSING to do that, they wont be forced.
    3.) well since thats factually not happening their rights are completely intact
    4.) they are still free to BELIEVE that nothing changed
    5.) 100% correct
    6.) no this way they dont break the law and infringe on rights, thats how they will be protecting their business lol

    but you hit the nail right on the head

    as a christian myself i would have to be a completely uneducated mentally retarded moron to open a businesses, get a license and think the law doesnt apply to me, that i get to break it, commit crimes and nothing is going to happen. I know what the rules and laws are that we ALL have to play by and if i break them thats MY FAULT and MY CHOICE and id have to face the consequence just like everybody else, i dont get special treatment.

    If i want to protect my business i simply dont break the law and commit crimes, basic common sense.
    How would they be breaking any laws by not offering wedding cakes to the public? They wouldn't! And if they want to cater to private organizations the service of wedding cakes, that isn't against the law either. You state they need to play by the same rules? Well if they aren't going to offer wedding cakes to the public anymore, how are they not following the rules? And at the same time they do not violate their moral conscience. As authoritarian, liberal fascism is rising in this country, I wonder how long it will be before we start seeing ministers, priests, rabbis arrested for hate speech for teaching the traditional teachings in their religious texts that claims homosexuality is a sin.

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    1.)How would they be breaking any laws by not offering wedding cakes to the public? They wouldn't! And if they want to cater to private organizations the service of wedding cakes, that isn't against the law either.

    2.)You state they need to play by the same rules? Well if they aren't going to offer wedding cakes to the public anymore, how are they not following the rules? And at the same time they do not violate their moral conscience.

    3.) As authoritarian, liberal fascism is rising in this country

    4.), I wonder how long it will be before we start seeing ministers, priests, rabbis arrested for hate speech for teaching the traditional teachings in their religious texts that claims homosexuality is a sin.

    1.)uhm? i didnt say they would maybe you should reread lol
    in fact i agreed with you, notice the part that says "100% correct"

    2.) correct again since i never made this claim the mistake is yours

    3.) protecting equal rights has nothing and stooping illegal discrimination has nothing to do with what you just said.

    4.) as long as it took for them to be arrested for saying minorities and women being lessers or denying people marriage based on race, religion or just cause they fell like it.

    oh wait thats never happened because they are allowed to we have a constitution that protects them, their rights arent in any danger and i support their rights.
    Last edited by AGENT J; 12-09-13 at 02:38 AM.
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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.)uhm? i didnt say they would maybe you should reread lol
    in fact i agreed with you, notice the part that says "100% correct"

    2.) correct again since i never made this claim the mistake is yours

    3.) protecting equal rights has nothing and stooping illegal discrimination has nothing to do with what you just said.

    4.) as long as it took for them to be arrested for saying minorities and women being leasers or denying people marriage based on race, religion or just cause they fell like it.

    oh wait thats never happened because they are allowed to we have a constitution that protects them, their rights arent in any danger and i support their rights.
    Oh the Constitution, yes, First Amendment and all that jazz. Well if you don't support the religious rights of others to say no to a wedding cake because it violates their moral conscience, then what makes you think the rights for the ministers, priests, and rabbis whose teachings are at the heart of the moral consciences of many, will remain protected?

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Oh the Constitution, yes, First Amendment and all that jazz.

    1.) Well if you don't support the religious rights of others to say no to a wedding cake because it violates their moral conscience

    2.) then what makes you think the rights for the ministers, priests, and rabbis whose teachings are at the heart of the moral consciences of many, will remain protected?
    1.) maybe because they are factually different and they dont have that right lol they factually do not have that right.
    i support religious freedom 100% as much as i do equal rights

    one is a clear infringement on others rights, illegal discrimination and denying equal rights to people so no religious rights are being infringed on.

    2.) again they are already protected by the constitution and they are in no danger especially by equal right. they were in no danger when slavery ended, when woman and minorities gained equal rights protections and when interracial marriage was protected and they are in no danger now unless you know of a plan (that actually has a chance) to amended the constitution?

    sorry that strawman fails
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