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Thread: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647]

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I will never understand this human rights argument. I know the argument well from school, but that doesn't mean it makes any sense to me. I am student of philosophy and have read hundreds of books on it, and more than I should have on property and it's history, but I can't figure out how this argument makes sense. All types of property, be that your body, your house, your business, or even your land work on the same principle. Just as you have sole claim to control access to your body, you also have sole claim to control access to your house, your business, or your land. No one can say to you that you must invite someone else into your body, your house, your business or your land and no one can act on them without violating your right to property.

    The people you speak of that can be discriminated against never had a just claim to be on the property or to service for that matter, so what rights are we really talking about here? If people have control over access to their property then they must in turn have the power to discriminate against who they chose when dealing with the use of it.

    If people however used the resources open to them to get the word out about places that discriminate then these businesses would not find it in their interest and the problem you speak of would be minimal at best. These businesses I highly doubt would ever grow to be anything more than a small town business with a small base of consumers.
    Because it isn't just a private property issue... it is a societal issue. Business that operate with the public are not really "private" either. As such they must abide by laws that affect the public. Nobody is saying that you have to let anybody into your house... since that is different. You could open a business that only sells honey to a company and nobody would argue that you have to let people you don't want on the property to observe. Hell, it is like a winery. Wineries that have various growing areas don't have to let anybody on that property... but the Winery itself that gives tastings and sells wine has to since it is open to the public.
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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292]

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    Let us know when you all start protesting and suing stores for the 'no shoes, no shirt, no service' policies. Oh wait, that would require consistency on your parts.
    *sigh* because shirts and shoes are a health and safety issue, not a discrimination one. Silly Arbo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    *sigh* because shirts and shoes are a health and safety issue, not a discrimination one. Silly Arbo.
    They are an imaginary 'safety' issue… there is nothing unsafe about not wearing shoes or a shirt into most any store.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I've asked you what kind of partnership/group/belief a person is forced to adopt in a one time transaction. You can't show which? Good.

    According to you. - I'd say social welfare and harmony is a pretty good concept to base such laws upon.



    The law begs to differ.

    Lol, you're being purposely obtuse. You yourself claimed this

    Again, how do you have a right to use them if you must pay for them? Even the government would argue you can't use a resource like say a bedroom at a hotel without first paying for it. So how is it you have a right to use the resource when the concept of rights is in part dependent upon there being no fee to exercise them? Lol. You're way out of your league again.
    He prefers that businesses be allowed to serve spoiled food, keep unclean, unhealthy facilities, not be subject to safety laws that protect employees and customers, etc. All things that are part of the laws governing businesses and are the foundation for the business licenses that business owners voluntarily sign.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Because it isn't just a private property issue... it is a societal issue. Business that operate with the public are not really "private" either. As such they must abide by laws that affect the public. Nobody is saying that you have to let anybody into your house... since that is different. You could open a business that only sells honey to a company and nobody would argue that you have to let people you don't want on the property to observe. Hell, it is like a winery. Wineries that have various growing areas don't have to let anybody on that property... but the Winery itself that gives tastings and sells wine has to since it is open to the public.
    Yes, I'm aware that people see it as a societal issue. I don't much respond to those kind of arguments. I much better prefer balancing rights against rights and not against needs or desires of society. If I accepted your argument here I would need to accept other arguments on a societal standing and almost all those are to the most part socialist trash or busy body nonsense that doesn't interest me.

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292]

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    They are an imaginary 'safety' issue… there is nothing unsafe about not wearing shoes or a shirt into most any store.
    You MAY think it is an imaginary issue, but it DOES fall under a HEALTH issue whether you like it or not. Hence, it isn't a discriminatory issue.

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292]

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    They are an imaginary 'safety' issue… there is nothing unsafe about not wearing shoes or a shirt into most any store.
    Shoes is pretty basic for health and safety. A non-covered foot that gets injured is a law suit. And to those that it isn't health and safety (food establishments and such) it would be a public decency thing. It is not discrimination to require certain levels of clothing because all one has to do is get required clothing and they can go in. That is why businesses are allowed dress codes. Pretty much same thing.

    Your analogy is bad. Just deal with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    He prefers that businesses be allowed to serve spoiled food, keep unclean, unhealthy facilities, not be subject to safety laws that protect employees and customers, etc. All things that are part of the laws governing businesses and are the foundation for the business licenses that business owners voluntarily sign.
    I don't believe I have ever talked on those issues.

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I will never understand this human rights argument.
    For once I agree with you
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    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
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    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    I think it is wonderful you are so accepting of your son, some parents go insane when they find out one of their children is gay.

    I think that going to the courts is a good thing because it sets a precedent and will hopefully make other companies think twice before acting in a bigoted manner.
    He would have too much pride to go to court over an issue like this, but he would certainly let people know of this baker's attitudes.

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