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Thread: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647]

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    My point essentially boils down to this: Can a business benefit from all the benefits provided through tax monies and still deny the tax payers patronship on the mere basis of race, gender, sexuality? If yes then it sets up the groundwork for an illogical society where a tax payer can choose to pay taxes depending on who it helps. As that premise is illogical and contrary to the notion of what it means to live within a society, there are only three options left for a business:

    1) businesses completely stop using societal benefits/taxes/privileges thus freeing themselves from public accommodations status. (Unlikely)
    2) businesses continue to use societal benefits/taxes/privileges thus maintaining public accommodations status. (Very likely)
    3) businesses cease to exist if they do not conform to what it means to live within a society.
    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So basically you impose taxes on them, you impose a contract on them, and then because of both of these things you imposed on them you get to control them. Nonsense. Shear and utter nonsense.

    Go ahead though, try to convince me that because you imposed force on someone that other forces are warranted. You know it's nonsense I'm sure, but go ahead anyway.

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    We should consider ourselves possessing the ability to shop at establishments that don't discriminate. Since we have the ability to spread the word of these establishments and people are generally in agreement that discrimination is bad there is little reason for law here. We can handle this on our own.

    The property in question is not your property and you have no say on who they permit on it, but the money you use in the market place is and so is your facilities. Use them and stop insisting on acting on the rights of other people.
    I am sorry but I disagree, with that kind of reasoning there would still be businesses with "whites only" signs in the windows. There was not only a need for such a law but also a justification for anti-discrimination laws.

    It may not be my property, but as long as a property houses a commercial business it has to keep to the laws of the United States and one of those laws is that it is not legal for them to discriminate. And I am not insisting on acting on the rights of other people. I am insisting judges sentence/smack down companies who are bigots when it comes to human rights of other.
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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So basically you impose taxes on them, you impose a contract on them, and then because of both of these things you imposed on them you get to control them. Nonsense. Shear and utter nonsense.

    Go ahead though, try to convince me that because you imposed force on someone that other forces are warranted. You know it's nonsense I'm sure, but go ahead anyway.

    The great thing about statism is that the foundation of the idea is a fallacy.
    Yeah, but it's always the gays that are the last straw. That's what I think is hilarious.

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Yeah, but it's always the gays that are the last straw. That's what I think is hilarious.
    dont forget there are many that claim that THIS time its magically different that those other things.
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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    I am sorry but I disagree, with that kind of reasoning there would still be businesses with "whites only" signs in the windows. There was not only a need for such a law but also a justification for anti-discrimination laws.

    It may not be my property, but as long as a property houses a commercial business it has to keep to the laws of the United States and one of those laws is that it is not legal for them to discriminate. And I am not insisting on acting on the rights of other people. I am insisting judges sentence/smack down companies who are bigots when it comes to human rights of other.
    I will never understand this human rights argument. I know the argument well from school, but that doesn't mean it makes any sense to me. I am student of philosophy and have read hundreds of books on it, and more than I should have on property and it's history, but I can't figure out how this argument makes sense. All types of property, be that your body, your house, your business, or even your land work on the same principle. Just as you have sole claim to control access to your body, you also have sole claim to control access to your house, your business, or your land. No one can say to you that you must invite someone else into your body, your house, your business or your land and no one can act on them without violating your right to property.

    The people you speak of that can be discriminated against never had a just claim to be on the property or to service for that matter, so what rights are we really talking about here? If people have control over access to their property then they must in turn have the power to discriminate against who they chose when dealing with the use of it.

    If people however used the resources open to them to get the word out about places that discriminate then these businesses would not find it in their interest and the problem you speak of would be minimal at best. These businesses I highly doubt would ever grow to be anything more than a small town business with a small base of consumers.
    Last edited by Henrin; 12-08-13 at 09:52 PM.

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Yeah, but it's always the gays that are the last straw. That's what I think is hilarious.
    I'm a libertarian, so you know, I was always against it.

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292]

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    Let us know when you all start protesting and suing stores for the 'no shoes, no shirt, no service' policies. Oh wait, that would require consistency on your parts.
    Shoes and shirts are not covered under anti-discrimination laws. Race and gender are. In Colo, sexual orientation is.
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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Shoes and shirts are not covered under anti-discrimination laws. Race and gender are. In Colo, sexual orientation is.
    Yet again showing government has no business dishing out such laws, as they don't cover ALL discrimination. Just those they are trying to buy votes from.
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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292]

    Quote Originally Posted by JJB3333 View Post
    not at all. You people think that the entire country wanted to segregate against black's, but many people did not. Can you imagine if every single black that was segregated against befor the 60's just decided to sue for the littlest things?

    The blacks cant help being black so they should not be segregated against for something they cant change. But if you decide to deviate from the national standard of acceptance, you should be ready to get hit with an assault of segregation, even though it is technically illegal.

    And yes, as most people in the world are straight or single, being gay/lesbian has not become nationally accepted. For us not to segregate against this the government would have t force every human being on the planet to be bi. Anything less will cause segregation.
    If blacks had sued, they would have received more attention, created more adverse consequences for racism, and possibly gained the advantages of segregation sooner. When something is WRONG, it cant be wrong to fight it.

    And gays do not decide to be gay. They ARE gay and it doesnt matter if it is 'socially' or 'nationally' accepted. THey are a minority and deserve equal rights.

    And the bold is one of the craziest things I've ever read on this topic. Gays are integrated throughout our society now, everywhere. The govt had almost nothing to do with it. Most of the time you are not even aware of it.

    But there are areas where gays do not have equal rights...and that is what the gay marriage issue is about.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292]

    Quote Originally Posted by JJB3333 View Post
    1.)not at all. You people think that the entire country wanted to segregate against black's, but many people did not. Can you imagine if every single black that was segregated against befor the 60's just decided to sue for the littlest things?

    2.)The blacks cant help being black so they should not be segregated against for something they cant change. But if you decide to deviate from the national standard of acceptance, you should be ready to get hit with an assault of segregation, even though it is technically illegal.

    3.)And yes, as most people in the world are straight or single, being gay/lesbian has not become nationally accepted.

    4.)For us not to segregate against this the government would have t force every human being on the planet to be bi. Anything less will cause segregation.
    1.) what do you consider "little" things? being denied equal rights is never littler and the reason blacks didnt "sue" before the 60s is because there had to be legal precedence to win on, a reliable system that would consistently fight for them and then there was the "little" thing of they might not live out the week depending on who they sued, who they were and where they lived. Just saying

    2.) a person cant change their sexual orientation so it fits the national standard what ever that is

    3.) doesnt need nationally accepted, women and minorities as equal still isnt accepted by many

    4.) this makes no sense i dont even know what you are trying to say
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