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Thread: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647]

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    It actually said the opposite. It said, "if you disagree with someone you can take them to court and force them to serve you.
    No....what the court said is that in a free society, people are free to go about their business without facing discrimination in the marketplace. They also said that in a free society, society has a right to set laws to ensure that the rights of a free society to live free of discrimination. This is a victory for freedom and freedom loving Americans. A defeat for the bigots of the world.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphinocean View Post
    Another point I wanted to address but had to leave for a while, you said: "Nobody is asking this baker to bake anything other than that which he normally produces in the course of business."

    But, the gay customers and the judge did. What the baker in question normally produces in the course of business is wedding cakes for heterosexual weddings and not gay weddings.
    Exactly correct. The business normally produces wedding cakes for it's customers.

    The business refused to produce an equal product for homosexuals.

    He discriminated based on sexual orientation and therefore violated Colorado Statute 24-34-601.


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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    No....what the court said is that in a free society, people are free to go about their business without facing discrimination in the marketplace. They also said that in a free society, society has a right to set laws to ensure that the rights of a free society to live free of discrimination. This is a victory for freedom and freedom loving Americans. A defeat for the bigots of the world.
    So people are entitled to the property and labor of others is what you're saying.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphinocean View Post
    But you're making an argument based on false premise.

    The baker clearly stated to the court that he was willing to bake birthday cakes, baby shower cakes for the gay couples, just not their wedding which was against his religious belief. Therefore, it has nothing to do with his like or dislike of the customers.
    And here I thought we were getting close.

    The basis for the discrimination was a product normally provided which was denied based on the sexual orientation of the customer.

    Here is the law again: "(2) It is a discriminatory practice and unlawful for a person, directly or indirectly, to refuse, withhold from, or deny to an individual or a group, because of disability, race, creed, color, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, national origin, or ancestry, the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of a place of public accommodation or,..."

    Providing some goods to straight couples and refusing those same services to gay couples is not "full and equal" conduct of the business.



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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Exactly correct. The business normally produces wedding cakes for it's customers.

    The business refused to produce an equal product for homosexuals.

    He discriminated based on sexual orientation and therefore violated Colorado Statute 24-34-601.


    >>>>
    That certainly is the law. Not exactly just since one has no right to another's property or labor, but laws don't always have to be just.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphinocean View Post
    But there is no religious ground or any other basis for the refusal other than their skin color. The baker in this case has a legitimate religious basis.
    1. Actually, religious grounds were argued in interracial marriage cases. The Commonwealth of Virginia argued Biblical principals in it's defense of the anti-miscegenation Loving v. Virginia.


    2. "Legitimate religious basis", so now the government is supposed to determine what is a "legitimate" religious morally held principal? You really sure you want to give that power to the government?



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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphinocean View Post
    Nope. The baker would be happy to sell any cakes to anybody gay or straight, just not a gay theme wedding cake which he wanted no part of due to religious ground.
    Incorrect. He wouldn't sell any cake to any customer. He would sell wedding cakes to straight couples only. Wedding cakes are a subset of "Any" cake.


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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Incorrect. He wouldn't sell any cake to any customer. He would sell wedding cakes to straight couples only. Wedding cakes are a subset of "Any" cake.


    >>>>
    Wedding cake is certainly a subset of Cake....you do know what cake is, yes?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphinocean View Post
    That's what we're talking about, a friggin cake. Then go to another store and get a generic friggin wedding cakes and stop clogging up the court with frivolous lawsuit already.

    If it was a frivolous lawsuit, the case would have been dismissed. Since the couple won the case, it is a priori evidence that the case wasn't frivolous.

    BTW - it wasn't a "lawsuit", the couple did not file in Civil Court. They logged a complaint with Colorado equivalent of the EEOC.


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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Its a friggin cake....no one was asking him to attend the wedding....geeeessh!
    But you are demanding him to create something with his bare hands that will be used for something he is morally against. From the rulings coming from different parts of the country forcing cake decorators, florists and photographers, all artists, will be forced to produce anything a person off the street demands of them. Say a couple wants a photographer to take pictures of their wedding. The photographer is a Christian and the couple is holding their wedding ceremony at the First Church of Satan. According to your thinking, he should be forced to take the pictures because the photographer does wedding ceremonies. Or say a Jewish catering service who specializes in kosher food is asked to prepare the chicken and fish dishes for a wedding and finds out that there will be other caterers there preparing shrimp cocktails, bacon wrapped fillet mignons and pork chops in the same kitchen. According to you he has no right to refuse his services to those who ask them of him because that would be discrimination. A Muslim florist, who covers her head out of modesty, wears dresses that completely cover her legs and arms is asked to do the flowers for a wedding. The theme of the wedding is Adam and Eve. She is asked to provide decorative fig leaves as the attire for the bride and groom to wear during the ceremony which she finds offensive and according to you she has no right to deny this request. An atheist goes into a print shop run by take your pick (Hindu, Muslim, Jew or Christian) wanting fliers printed that are titled "God is Dead". According to you, this printer is not allowed to deny his service and must print the fliers and the printer is forced to sign his name to the work through his company name misrepresenting and violating his belief system. In other words what you are claiming it is perfectly alright for a person to be forced to violate their conscience, THEIR VERY BEING, in the name of so called discrimination. In other words you see people not being allowed to live their moral conscience if they have a public business. Unbelievable.

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