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Thread: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647]

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    You are completely missing the point, which is why your analogies are so bad and completely off point. No one in this case is asking the baker to bake a product that they don't otherwise bake in the course of their business. The issue isn't asking him to bake something different, the issue is whether he has a right to refuse service of a product that he otherwise normally provides, to customers that he doesn't like. The Court said no.
    But you're making an argument based on false premise.

    The baker clearly stated to the court that he was willing to bake birthday cakes, baby shower cakes for the gay couples, just not their wedding which was against his religious belief. Therefore, it has nothing to do with his like or dislike of the customers.

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    So if a black couple came in and the baker had never made a wedding cake for blacks because none lived in the are you feel it is perfectly acceptable for the baker to say, "hey, I only bake "wedding cakes for white people"?
    But there is no religious ground or any other basis for the refusal other than their skin color. The baker in this case has a legitimate religious basis.

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphinocean View Post
    Another point I wanted to address but had to leave for a while, you said: "Nobody is asking this baker to bake anything other than that which he normally produces in the course of business."

    But, the gay customers and the judge did. What the baker in question normally produces in the course of business is wedding cakes for heterosexual weddings and not gay weddings.
    No. The product that the baker normally produces is a wedding cake, period. He wanted to be able to discriminate on only sell them to heterosexuals. Understand now? You are misconstruing the product with the business practice.
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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    You didn't make a point since you are setting up terrible, illogical analogies.

    The baker in Colorado baked "Wedding Cakes... not penis's. Your photographer took pictures of "lovely females"... not naked people. The analogy has to be equal on both sides. If the baker bakes wedding cakes he must bake wedding cakes to whomever wants one. If a lesbian wants her picture taken your photographer must take her picture within the same context as the non-lesbian ones. If she wants to be naked the photographer can legally say no, of course.
    I said bodies of the beautiful ladies. Other the other side of the coin would be about male bodies. I didn't say anything about genitals so why would you talk about penises?

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Before the laws? Rampant discrimination and no consequences.
    After the laws? Extremely low levels of discrimination with pretty severe consequences.

    No... it really does ignore discrimination.
    No, it doesn't. It just puts the responsibility unto the People. Government acts to prevent violations of right, and there was plenty of discrimination prior that violated rights. Government force may rightfully be used in those situations to remove the discrimination. But in this case it's cake. In this case we're talking individual business and you don't have a right to another man's property and labor. Ergo, government force is not appropriate. It thus falls upon our shoulders to uphold the morality of society and we must execute informed and intelligent consumerism along with social activism to push for change.
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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    You have specifically stated in this thread numerous times that you do support a business's right to discriminate. WTF are you talking about!

    If you are for a business's right to discriminate against people then you are for discrimination. There really is no way around that fact. Throw out all the disclaimers you like.
    No. That is a ridiculous and inaccurate statement. Let me ask you:

    If one is for the freedom of speech...even if said freedom allows racist speech...then you are for racist speech. And yet I am willing to make a bet that you would argue you are not for racist speech? Right? Or do you not support the right to free speech?

    You see how your poor logic would work against someone who is actually for freedom? You obviously want more nanny state government to protect someone's feelings. The fact is that...even though this guy is a bigoted scumbag...he should have every right to be a bigoted scumbag. It is his property and his services.
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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphinocean View Post
    But there is no religious ground or any other basis for the refusal other than their skin color. The baker in this case has a legitimate religious basis.
    The religion in question is irrelevant. "Religion" is not some umbrella one can hide behind in order to violate a person's rights.

    It is illegal to discriminate against a person's religion, race, gender, colour or sexual orientation. According to you a Muslim baker can refuse to bake a Jew a cake.
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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphinocean View Post
    But you're making an argument based on false premise.

    The baker clearly stated to the court that he was willing to bake birthday cakes, baby shower cakes for the gay couples, just not their wedding which was against his religious belief. Therefore, it has nothing to do with his like or dislike of the customers.
    Absolutely it did. He was treating the gay customers differently that other customers. That is like saying to a black customer....yes, you can ride on my bus, but ya hafta sit in the back. That is not OK in America and this Baker is learning the hard way. If he had only been a little more Christ-like in his actions.....
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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    No. The product that the baker normally produces is a wedding cake, period. He wanted to be able to discriminate on only sell them to heterosexuals. Understand now? You are misconstruing the product with the business practice.
    Nope. The baker would be happy to sell any cakes to anybody gay or straight, just not a gay theme wedding cake which he wanted no part of due to religious ground.

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Absolutely it did. He was treating the gay customers differently that other customers. That is like saying to a black customer....yes, you can ride on my bus, but ya hafta sit in the back. That is not OK in America and this Baker is learning the hard way. If he had only been a little more Christ-like in his actions.....
    Mind tell me on what legitimate basis the bus driver can request that other than the skin color?

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