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Thread: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647]

  1. #121
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    re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    I would say that if a bakery does not make porn cakes, they could not be forced to... but if they do make porn cakes for some, they wouldn't be able to deny a porn cake to a different customer.

    MMM... Porn cake sounds delicious, btw.
    But, I'm fairly sure that most people like it or not find the idea of homosexuality more objectionable than porn. (Think of how much quicker one would find themselves all alone at the company picnic for telling homosexual dirty jokes versus heterosexual dirty jokes.) And this dictatorial judge wants to force the baker to make a wedding cake celebrating something he finds revolting and obscene. I still think that under this precedent if any couple wanted a porn themed wedding, the despotic state would have to force him to create confectionery genitalia to adorn the cake. It's all really serfdom shading to slavery by other means and names.
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    re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    But, I'm fairly sure that most people like it or not find the idea of homosexuality more objectionable than porn. (Think of how much quicker one would find themselves all alone at the company picnic for telling homosexual dirty jokes versus heterosexual dirty jokes.) And this dictatorial judge wants to force the baker to make a wedding cake celebrating something he finds revolting and obscene. I still think that under this precedent if any couple wanted a porn themed wedding, the despotic state would have to force him to create confectionery genitalia to adorn the cake. It's all really serfdom shading to slavery by other means and names.

    no the precedent doesnt lend to that in anyway what so ever, porn is not sexual orientation nor does it have antyhign to so with illegal discrimination and equal rights
    Last edited by AGENT J; 12-07-13 at 04:26 AM.
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  3. #123
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    re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

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    Colorado Judge:  Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647]All personal attacks need to stop.
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  4. #124
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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    1.)Listen, don't know if you have really thought this out at all, but whether you like it or not this is going to be at the expense of one side or the other. There is no win win...
    2.)and it appears you want gay rights to win over all others.
    3.)Religious rights trump, sorry, they just do.
    4.)Now, if this were the only baker in Colorado, maybe we could have an actual debate over the matter... but to sue to force these folks to go against their stated religious principles is a complete travesty and, I would suspect, an agenda driven move to intimidate others.
    5.)Did I ever ask the "religious beliefs of the customers"? What would be the relevance of that, exactly? They can pick and choose who they want to based on whatever their criteria might be... as long as who they choose accepts their commission to bake this special cake.
    6.)If their religious beliefs don't match, they go someplace else.
    7.)They would not in any way be forced to get their cake from that bakery or any other. Right? Apples and oranges.
    8.) Listen, I hope you don't charge for your consults, because you would owe me at this point...and perhaps have a malpractice suit.
    9.) What it should have revealed is that I, as have others, have had just about enough with government telling me what I they think I MUST believe, by force of law.
    10.) Your pop psychology assessment, tho, does tell us a lot about you. In the end, I think I would say take your juvenile pablum, that you might actually be able to persuade others as mimicking actual intelligence, elsewhere please... I am in no need such libertarian pseudo-psychological analysis.

    What a laugh there guy, do you actually read what you write?

    .
    1.) what wins is equal rights and law
    2.) nope the law protects ALL sexual orientation, this case just happens to involve a gay couple
    3.) this is factually wrong, facts laws and rights already prove your statement wrong, so no they just dont.
    4.) they arent forced , they chose to break the laws the laws they new that were in place they CHOSE to break them
    5.) the cake isnt "special" its normal, this strawman is silly
    6.) nope they dont have too
    7.) correct you example is apples and oranges
    8.) what does this have to do with the topic?
    9.) good thing the government is factually not telling you what to believe this baker is still free to believe what he wants, this is another failed strawman
    10.) more off topic ranting


    aagain please stay on topic and let us know when you have any facts to back up your claims
    then tell us why your OPINION trumps the facts, laws, rights, court cases and court precedent already established?
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  5. #125
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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Religious rights trump, sorry, they just do. Now, if this were the only baker in Colorado, maybe we could have an actual debate over the matter... but to sue to force these folks to go against their stated religious principles is a complete travesty and, I would suspect, an agenda driven move to intimidate others.
    Baking a cake is not a religious practice. It is not protected by the law.

    What it should have revealed is that I, as have others, have had just about enough with government telling me what I they think I MUST believe, by force of law.
    .
    The law doesn't require the baker to think anything. It does require that he not discriminate against LGBT's. The difference between forcing someone to believe something and forbidding someone from doing something is pretty obvious. Not sure where you are having a problem distinguishing between the two.
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  6. #126
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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    I would argue that the bakers refusal was not based on the sexual orientation of the customer but, rather, on the purpose to which they were going to put the cake. The customer didn't ask for just any cake. They wanted a cake to commemorate a wedding. It's perfectly reasonable that a heterosexual individual requesting such a cake would also be refused that service under some circumstances. The objection was not, as far as I can tell, based on the sexual orientation of the customer.
    ·
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    ·
    I don't see anywhere in that statute where a "public accommodation" can't refuse goods or services based on what they will be used for. Now, if a homosexual walked into the bakery and said "I am getting married to an opposite sex partner and want a cake" and that request was refused simply on the basis that the individual was a homosexual that would be a different story.
    It seems that this almost, but not quite, makes a point I was trying to think of how to make.

    If a wedding cake were just a generic sort of cake, that you could walk into a bakery, grab one off the shelf, pay for it, and walk out with it, then there'd be no issue. There'd be no reason for the baker to ask, or for the customer to tell, any details about the wedding in which that cake was going to be used.

    But wedding cakes are usually an individual, customized item. Traditionally, there are figured of a bride and a groom on top, and the names of the bride and groom somehow worked into the decorations. The cake is specific to the wedding in which it is to be used.

    Now, if a customer walks into a bakery,and he wants the baker to make a “wedding cake”, but instead of a bride and groom on the top, he wants two grooms; and the names to be put on the came are “Jonathon” and “George”, then it obvious that the cake is not intended for an actual wedding, but for a disgusting homosexual mockery of a wedding. There is good reason why most people would find it immoral to have any part in such a sick mockery, and it is certainly both immoral and unconstitutional to use the power of government to force or coerce someone into doing so.
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  7. #127
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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    It seems that this almost, but not quite, makes a point I was trying to think of how to make.

    1.) If a wedding cake were just a generic sort of cake, that you could walk into a bakery, grab one off the shelf, pay for it, and walk out with it, then there'd be no issue. There'd be no reason for the baker to ask, or for the customer to tell, any details about the wedding in which that cake was going to be used.

    2.) But wedding cakes are usually an individual, customized item. Traditionally, there are figured of a bride and a groom on top, and the names of the bride and groom somehow worked into the decorations. The cake is specific to the wedding in which it is to be used.

    3.) Now, if a customer walks into a bakery,and he wants the baker to make a “wedding cake”, but instead of a bride and groom on the top, he wants two grooms; and the names to be put on the came are “Jonathon” and “George”, then it obvious that the cake is not intended for an actual wedding, but for a disgusting homosexual mockery of a wedding. There is good reason why most people would find it immoral to have any part in such a sick mockery, and it is certainly both immoral and

    4.)unconstitutional to use the power of government to force or coerce someone into doing so.
    1.) this can factually be done, a wedding cake CAN be grabbed off the shelf paid for and walked out with.
    But some times you want a specific cake, same rule applies for ALL cakes.

    I had to ask for a specific BIRTHDAY cake.

    so this point completely fails.

    2.) see #1
    3.) this is nothing but your meaningless, hilarious, hateful, bigoted "opinion" that cracks me up

    4.) this part i made separate simply because its factually untrue as already proven

    anything else?
    Last edited by AGENT J; 12-07-13 at 06:07 AM.
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  8. #128
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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    So much for that whole freedom of association part of our Constitution.


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  9. #129
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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    My understanding of this case is that the baker offered to make the couple any other kind of cake that they wanted but refused to do a wedding cake because he considers marriage to be a matter of religion. It isn't homosexuals that he's refusing service to, it's ceremonies that violate his religious beliefs. From what I understand he also refuses to make Halloween themed items for the same reason.
    Perhaps there's another point to be made here, as well.

    If I walk into a Kashrut or Halal butcher shop, and ask for pork chops, would the proprietor be illegally discriminating against me by not offering them for sale? He's not telling me I can't eat pork; just that if I want pork, I'm going to have to buy it somewhere else.

    What if I have some odd religious belief that requires me to eat pork? Would a Kashrut or Halal butcher be violating my religious rights by refusing to sell me pork?

    What if I bring a pig into such a shop, and want it butchered for me? If the butcher will butcher a cow, is he required to butcher a pig as well?


    It would be one thing for me to walk into a shop seeking to buy a product that is there being offered for sale, and have the proprietor refuse to sell it to me because he disapproves of my race, my religion, my political beliefs, or whatever.

    I think it is an entirely different thing altogether for a proprietor to refuse to produce a custom product or service, where that product or service itself violates his sincerely-held beliefs and morals. It doesn't even have to be religious-based.

    Should a conservative print shop owner be compelled to print up posters for a liberal cause that he opposes?
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  10. #130
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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    So much for that whole freedom of association part of our Constitution.
    Although that's widely-held to be a basic right, I don't think it's explicitly mentioned anywhere in the Constitution. At best, it is loosely implied from the First Amendment right to peaceably assemble, and held to be among the unnamed rights covered by the Ninth Amendment.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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