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Thread: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647]

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    That is your opinion, I think most blacks thank these laws for making their lives much much better.

    The government has every business forcing companies to not discriminate IMHO.
    Interesting.

    So what about a lemonade stand?

    Should the government be able to force the racist 12 year old owner of a lemonade stand to sell to a 'race' they don't want to?


    And what about looks discrimination?

    Certain upscale bars won't let ugly people in because they want only 'beautiful' people as patrons.

    Should they be forced to let less attractive people in?


    And what about female only gyms?

    They are discriminating on the basis of gender...should they be forced to let men in?


    Slippery slope you are starting down, IMO.

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Yeah....good luck with that one...LOL. There is zero chance that the Supreme Court will rule that businesses have a "natural right" to discriminate. Sorry....ain't gonna happen.
    Maybe in your a.....mind it is a cut and dried issue but in reality it is a Constitutional dilemma. How will they resolve it when a discrimination law to protect one group violates the property rights and religious freedoms of another group? How will they resolve equal treatment under the law for both? And where does a man's right to practice his religion a right afforded him in the Constitution end or does it?

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Maybe in your a.....mind it is a cut and dried issue but in reality it is a Constitutional dilemma. How will they resolve it when a discrimination law to protect one group violates the property rights and religious freedoms of another group? How will they resolve equal treatment under the law for both? And where does a man's right to practice his religion a right afforded him in the Constitution end or does it?
    You only WISH it were a "dilema". There is absolutely no "dilema" here. There is Zero....let me repeat ZERO chance that the Supreme Court is going to find an in-born "natural right" to discriminate. Sorry....ain't gonna happen...as much as you would like it to. Where does a man's right to practice his religion end? Easy....when he/she opens a business and attempts to use that religion as a shield to engage in discrimination. Next Question....
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Well let us look at it from this perspective. Had this been an interracial couple and the baker had denied them a wedding cake because he religiously felt that he could not support interracial marriages, would you have supported that as legitimate free exercise of religion?
    Listen, it is not an interracial couple, it is not a man with his dog, it is not any of these things being brought up. It is two gay men asking for a wedding cake and the owner declined because he said his religion precluded him from getting involved in Gay marriage. So they should simply respect that and go elsewhere. Thankfully, not all Gays are this petty.
    Actually the persepctive is the same:

    1. In one case the baker denies services normally offered to a couple based on a reason not allowed under the law.

    2. In the other case the baker denies services normally offered to a couple based on a reason not allowed under the law.


    In both cases the owner claims their "motive" that sould provide special privileges under the law is their personal "religious belief". In one case many support such a special privilege to religious views, in the other the general opinion is that (and I paraphrase) "oh, not that would apply in this case". That calls for the government then decide which "religious views" are valid and which are invalid. It's OK to discriminate against the gays, all you have to do is claim a "religious conviction". But in general a "religious conviction" would not be seen as justified in discriminating against an interracial couple.

    The best solution isn't to grand special privileges to claim a religious exemption, the best solution is to recognize the property rights of the owner and allow them to discriminate. It may not be pleasant, but in general the purchasing public will show their support or non-support with their wallets.



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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Maybe in your a.....mind it is a cut and dried issue but in reality it is a Constitutional dilemma. How will they resolve it when a discrimination law to protect one group violates the property rights and religious freedoms of another group? How will they resolve equal treatment under the law for both? And where does a man's right to practice his religion a right afforded him in the Constitution end or does it?

    The already did (the SCOTUS I mean) when they ruled in Heart of Atlanta Motel v. United States which upheld the validity of Public Accommodation laws.

    "The restaurant and motel proprietors argue also, however, that Congress violated the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment by requiring that they serve Negroes if they serve others. This argument comes down to this: that the broad power of Congress to enact laws deemed necessary and proper to regulate and protect interstate commerce is practically nullified by the negative constitutional commands that no person shall be deprived of "life, liberty, or property without due process of law," and that private property shall not be "taken" for public use without just compensation. In the past, this Court has consistently held that regulation of the use of property by the Federal Government or by the States does not violate either the Fifth or the Fourteenth Amendment."



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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    so you have no facts to support your statement then? thats what i thought but when you do let us know.
    You people are the ones who claim they are born that way. So are Pedophiles. Thus they are the same. Through no fault of their own they were born that way. Thus they are genetic abnormalities or they wouldn't of been born that way.
    Islam is an antiquated religion and needs to either modernize with the times or be completely eradicated.
    There are two types of Muslims, terrorists, and their enablers. They need to fix that if they want to be part of civilized society.

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Maybe in your a.....mind it is a cut and dried issue but in reality it is a Constitutional dilemma. How will they resolve it when a discrimination law to protect one group violates the property rights and religious freedoms of another group? How will they resolve equal treatment under the law for both? And where does a man's right to practice his religion a right afforded him in the Constitution end or does it?
    You are at the nub of the problem.

    It is my feeling that the Supreme Court, if it ever gets that far, would find in favor of the baker.

    Despite the foolish analogies we've seen here this baker was not refusing the two Gay men service. They could buy any goods in the store they wanted. He just did not want to make a wedding cake for Gays because it was against his religion. He clearly has the First Amendment on his side. A wedding cake for Gays is a special order and there is no reason why he should have to make any special order for anyone if he doesn't want to.
    Last edited by Grant; 12-10-13 at 02:16 PM.

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) nothing is factually being denied to them, the owner, his religious freedom is in tact as i asked before if you think its not gives us the facts as to why its not

    2.) well i cant answer for him and dont remeber his content
    but "personal not supporting them" is fine by me but if you discrimnainte against them or try to stop them from having equal rights you are in fact a bigot.

    3.) two things that have NOTHING to do with equal rights and illegal discrimination

    4.) 3 answers your question

    5.) which factually did not happen, the owners rights are intact
    What rights? When did cake become a right?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

    I would think they would be required to serve the gay couple but they would not be required to make the cake any differently thus it would still have a bride and groom on the top of it. Just like they don't use black bride and grooms for black wedding cakes.
    Islam is an antiquated religion and needs to either modernize with the times or be completely eradicated.
    There are two types of Muslims, terrorists, and their enablers. They need to fix that if they want to be part of civilized society.

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    Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    You are at the nub of the problem.

    It is my feeling that the Supreme Court, if it ever gets that far, would find in favor of the baker.
    LOL....now THAT is hilarious. There isn't a chance in hell that the SCOTUS would find a Constitutional or "Natural" or "In born" right to discriminate. Let me repeat...not a chance in hell. But you can keep wishing for it to be otherwise.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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