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Thread: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

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    Re: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Have you even been following the thread? We have only honored two foreign dignitaries in such a way (Churchill and Pope John Paul), both had a significant ties to, significant achievements for our population, our citizenry. It is very largely an American honor that honors Americans. That is how is has always been used. Mandela doesn't meet any bar for that in any stretch of the imagination.

    Not to mention, you ducked and dodged from your original mind reading statement which was wrong altogether.
    What did John Paul do for the United States?

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    Re: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    So what, so what, and... so what. Most of us don't care that he was engaged in military resistance--we laud it. The South African people had every right to take up arms against the regime that oppressed them, ghettoized them, and terrorized them. In the end it proved critical to the greater combination of forces that forced the Apartheid regime to the table.
    True and I concur. But the ANC used terrorism and targeted innocent civilians, mostly black Africans and murdered them. They used terrorism as a tactic. Terrorising the civilian population, murdering black South Africans who had no connections to the South African government. Why do you think the Zulus, the only real indigenous South Africans opposed Mandela and the ANC ? The Zulus were treated as third class citizens under apartheid but they opposed the use of terrorism.

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    Re: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Have you even been following the thread? We have only honored two foreign dignitaries in such a way (Churchill and Pope John Paul), both had a significant ties to, significant achievements for our population, our citizenry. It is very largely an American honor that honors Americans. That is how is has always been used. Mandela doesn't meet any bar for that in any stretch of the imagination.

    Not to mention, you ducked and dodged from your original mind reading statement which was wrong altogether.
    Just because you chose a name that mirrors a fool doesn't mean you must act like one. I know what this thread is about and I'm fully away of the more tradional circumstances whereby our government authorizes the lowering of the US flag at half-staff. That still does not negate the fact that under federal law the President can choose to show honors to foreign dignitaries at his discretion. You may not like that he's doing so for Mandela, but you're in no position to change what has occurred.

    So, again I say when leaders around the world recognize the significance of his conciliatory efforts on behalf of his people and, as such, they recognize him as an example for peaceful leadership, how do you not honor such a man in this way?
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    Re: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    True and I concur. But the ANC used terrorism and targeted innocent civilians, mostly black Africans and murdered them. They used terrorism as a tactic. Terrorising the civilian population, murdering black South Africans who had no connections to the South African government. Why do you think the Zulus, the only real indigenous South Africans opposed Mandela and the ANC ? The Zulus were treated as third class citizens under apartheid but they opposed the use of terrorism.
    The vast majority of ANC activities were against the South African security state, against Ian Smith's regime in Rhodesia, and along the entirety of the South African border region. Terrorism and more frequently sabotage was occasionally used and I refuse to pass judgement on the decision as it played a vital role in creating tension in South Africa society, pressuring the regime to do more militarily (which had the effect of exhausting it), and pressured white South Africans to seek an ending to the violence.

    Also... I have no clue where you received your information on the 'Zulus' but a few things:

    1. The Zulu were not and are not a monolithic entity. You are massively generalizing here. Thousands of Zulu joined the ANC such as the current president of South Africa Jacob Zuma.

    2. If you are referring to Zulu nationalists like the Inkatha Freedom Party or the collaborationist Apartheid supported government of Kwazulu-Natal they both engaged in inter-ethnic terror and opposed the ANC for reasons of nationalism and as a mechanism for retaining power in their collaborator government.

    3. Seriously... no terrorism? Arguably the most violent group in the spectrum of South African opposition parties and ethnic militias was the Inkatha Freedom Party and their associates.

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    Re: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

    I personally couldn't give a rats ass about Mandela the commie. Oh, and isn't SA and specifically Johannesburg the rape capital of the world? Great country ya got there, what with 1 out of every three women at risk of rape and 1 in 4 living with AIDS, you'll got to fly the flag of the USA to promote this man's accomplishments.. Accountability isn't exactly a word Obama knows very well though.. Wonder if we'll see Mandela's bust on the WH mantle anytime soon?


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    Re: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    The vast majority of ANC activities were against the South African security state, against Ian Smith's regime in Rhodesia, and along the entirety of the South African border region. Terrorism and more frequently sabotage was occasionally used and I refuse to pass judgement on the decision as it played a vital role in creating tension in South Africa society, pressuring the regime to do more militarily (which had the effect of exhausting it), and pressured white South Africans to seek an ending to the violence.

    .
    I'm pretty well aware of what was happening in Rhodesia during the 1970's. There are a few on the DP who are from the Politico.com fourm who know why I have a chip on my shoulder when it comes to these communist terrorist in Africa during the 70's and 80's. My fiancée was raped and murdered along with her mother, sister and father in Rhbodesia by communist in 1978 on their ranch in Rohdesia.

    I traveled to Rohdesia in 1977 via South Africa to meet her parents. I spent a few weeks in South Africa mostly surfing. I have a little knowledge what South Africa was like back then. They sure didn't have the crime they have today. If I were a black American, I sure wouldn't allow my daughter to travel to South Africa today.

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    Re: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    I'm pretty well aware of what was happening in Rhodesia during the 1970's. There are a few on the DP who are from the Politico.com fourm who know why I have a chip on my shoulder when it comes to these communist terrorist in Africa during the 70's and 80's. My fiancée was raped and murdered along with her mother, sister and father in Rhbodesia by communist in 1978 on their ranch in Rohdesia.

    I traveled to Rohdesia in 1977 via South Africa to meet her parents. I spent a few weeks in South Africa mostly surfing. I have a little knowledge what South Africa was like back then. They sure didn't have the crime they have today. If I were a black American, I sure wouldn't allow my daughter to travel to South Africa today.
    I'm sorry to hear about what happened to your fiancee and her family. My position on the resistance movement remains unchanged however. The reason crime was easier to contain during Apartheid is because South Africa was a military police state and crime was relegated to the townships and brutally suppressed.

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    Re: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

    He was never "a commie", and the ANC targeted government buildings. Mandela's "conciliatory" speeches date from before his imprisonment.
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    Re: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    What did John Paul do for the United States?
    If you read my posts in this thread you'd see I don't think he should have been honored so either. But at least he brought a more compassionate church to millions of American catholics.

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    Re: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    If you read my posts in this thread you'd see I don't think he should have been honored so either. But at least he brought a more compassionate church to millions of American catholics.
    Why are you implacably opposed to the American flag being flown at half mast for anyone other than Americans? It is a gesture that costs nothing.

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