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Thread: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

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    Re: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

    Those who are opposed to the President lowering the U.S. Flag at half mast in memory of Nelson Mandela's death are bitter because:

    1) they judge him based on his past and not his accomplishment as the former President of South Africa; and,

    2) they view this presidential decree as a slight to Margaret Thatcher, former Prime Minister of England and a Conservative Leader, who recently passed away and clearly did not receive such presidential honors.

    Judge him based on his past if you wish, but the way I see it if the world is in mourning over Mandela's death, how could the President of the United States not pay this foreign dignitary and icon of peace due respect? And since there clearly seems to be comparisons between paying tribute to Mandela and Thatcher, I'd like to know if folks who oppose this posthumous honor would be willing to produce comparative lists of what Mandela did not just for his people but for world peace compared to what Thatcher did. The only caveat: Leave Mandela's past out of it. Why? Because we already know of his actions as revolutionary. As far as I'm concerned, he paid for his crimes by spending 27 years in prison.

    Let's see if folks are willing to be honest and then we can truthfully determine if Mandela deserves such worldly honors.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    Would have made no difference to US policy. The ANC were initially inspired by Ghandi's peaceful protest movement and the US had a major problem with its black population brewing.

    It was politic for the US to turn a blind eye to segregation policy of the 1948 - 1960's in South Africa because that was exactly what was happening in the US at the same time. Even when the South African police killed over 50 unarmed protesters at Sharpeville there was no condemnation (although the US did vote against South Africa at the UN)

    The ANC simply used or built relations with any force / movement or country that would support the cause of freedom for Africans and that did not include America.
    Before the 1970's the USA had no interest in Sub Sahara Africa. During the 40's and 50's most of Africa were still European colonies including South Africa which was still part of the British Commonwealth. Until the 1970's Africa was always Europe's problem not America's.

    That would change when the Soviet Union turned their eyes towards Africa during the Cold War.

    Get off this liberal believe every thing is black and white.

    You also said >" freedom for Africans."< Again it seems your living in a black and white world. Are not Afrikaans also Africans or Libyans ? Anyone born on the continent of Africa is an African as anyone born in America is an American.

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    Re: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Those who are opposed to the President lowering the U.S. Flag at half mast in memory of Nelson Mandela's death are bitter because:

    1) they judge him based on his past and not his accomplishment as the former President of South Africa; and,

    2) they view this presidential decree as a slight to Margaret Thatcher, former Prime Minister of England and a Conservative Leader, who recently passed away and clearly did not receive such presidential honors.

    Judge him based on his past if you wish, but the way I see it if the world is in mourning over Mandela's death, how could the President of the United States not pay this foreign dignitary and icon of peace due respect? And since there clearly seems to be comparisons between paying tribute to Mandela and Thatcher, I'd like to know if folks who oppose this posthumous honor would be willing to produce comparative lists of what Mandela did not just for his people but for world peace compared to what Thatcher did. The only caveat: Leave Mandela's past out of it. Why? Because we already know of his actions as revolutionary. As far as I'm concerned, he paid for his crimes by spending 27 years in prison.

    Let's see if folks are willing to be honest and then we can truthfully determine if Mandela deserves such worldly honors.
    I think Mandela deserves all the honors he can get and I support the president flying the flag at half staff. As for Thatcher, I think the president should have followed what was protocol up to that point of sending the VP to head the delegation from the United States if he was unable to attend her funeral. He didn't and that made him look petty. Part of the Vice Presidents job is to attend funerals of foreign leaders when the president can't attend. Or it was up to and until Thatcher.

    But there is a difference between the two, Mandela is a world's icon. Thatcher was GB, US, and European Icon.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    South Africa remains the only nuclear state to have voluntarily given up its nuclear weapons.

    You're going to have to do better than this, AR.
    That's right and do you know why they destroyed their nukes ? They saw the writing on the wall that the terrorist organization the ANC would be gaining control of the South African government. If you look at the incompetancy and corruption of the ANC even today, if they had those nukes they would have sold them to highest bidder probably Al Qaeda.

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    Re: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Those who are opposed to the President lowering the U.S. Flag at half mast in memory of Nelson Mandela's death are bitter because:

    1) they judge him based on his past and not his accomplishment as the former President of South Africa; and,

    2) they view this presidential decree as a slight to Margaret Thatcher, former Prime Minister of England and a Conservative Leader, who recently passed away and clearly did not receive such presidential honors.

    Judge him based on his past if you wish, but the way I see it if the world is in mourning over Mandela's death, how could the President of the United States not pay this foreign dignitary and icon of peace due respect? And since there clearly seems to be comparisons between paying tribute to Mandela and Thatcher, I'd like to know if folks who oppose this posthumous honor would be willing to produce comparative lists of what Mandela did not just for his people but for world peace compared to what Thatcher did. The only caveat: Leave Mandela's past out of it. Why? Because we already know of his actions as revolutionary. As far as I'm concerned, he paid for his crimes by spending 27 years in prison.

    Let's see if folks are willing to be honest and then we can truthfully determine if Mandela deserves such worldly honors.
    I love how you do the mind reading thing. Unfortunately you're just not very good at it. Lowering our flag to half staff isn't for worldly honors, it is to honor someone who has made a significant contribution to OUR country, typically reserved for a countryman. We don't give out Congression Medals of Honor to folks from other militaries nor do we give out Medals of Freedom to non-Americans, no matter how much they forwarded the cause of freedom.

    Again, if you want to honor him, do so. But not with something that doesn't fit. It's a cheap political move or just rank stupidity on our current president's part.

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    Re: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    I love how you do the mind reading thing. Unfortunately you're just not very good at it. Lowering our flag to half staff isn't for worldly honors, it is to honor someone who has made a significant contribution to OUR country, typically reserved for a countryman. We don't give out Congression Medals of Honor to folks from other militaries nor do we give out Medals of Freedom to non-Americans, no matter how much they forwarded the cause of freedom.

    Again, if you want to honor him, do so. But not with something that doesn't fit. It's a cheap political move or just rank stupidity on our current president's part.
    As a Navy veteran who has performed many Honors Ceremonies, I could tell you you're wrong, but quoting regulations as this poster previous did on page one does the trick so much better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Title 4 United States Code:
    § 7. Position and Manner of Display.
    (m) The flag, when flown at half-staff, should be first hoisted to the peak for an instant and then lowered to the half-staff position. The flag should be again raised to the peak before it is lowered for the day. On Memorial Day, the flag should be displayed at half-staff until noon only, then raised to the top of the staff. By order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of a state, territory, or possession, as a mark of respect to their memory. In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    Before the 1970's the USA had no interest in Sub Sahara Africa --
    LOL, never heard of Patrice Lumumba eh? The US was complicit as far back as 1961 and then the CIA spotted Mandela's farm and notified South African police before Mandela's trial in 1964.

    Just wow for your naïveté.

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    Re: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Just curious who were we allied with in S Africa at the time?
    At what time ? Be specific.

    Before 1961 South Africa was still part of the British Commonwealth so technically they were allies of the USA. During the 60's, 70's and most of the 80's it was the CIA who handled America's interest in Africa.

    If you were around during the mid 70's through most of the 80's you may have remembered when the "New Left" in America got their panties all wadded up because "Soldier of Fortune" magazine was running advertisements to recruit mercenaries to fight communist terrorist in Africa.

    In 1975 the United States was officially allied with South Africa and intervened in Angola to fight the Marxist FNLA who were backed by the Soviet Union and Cuban troops. South Africa was an ally of the West during the Cold War. This is why many in America and the UK opposed economic sanctions against South African at the time. They didn't support the South African NP government apartheid policies but there were Cold war proxy wars being fought at the time and many of them in Africa.

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    Re: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    LOL, never heard of Patrice Lumumba eh? The US was complicit as far back as 1961 and then the CIA spotted Mandela's farm and notified South African police before Mandela's trial in 1964.

    Just wow for your naïveté.
    Do you think maybe Mandela was a communist terrorist ?

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    Re: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

    Quote Originally Posted by Carleen View Post
    He ended apartheid in South Africa. PPretty big accomplishment
    Again, how did he end it ? He was sitting in prison for over two decades when apartheid was ended. Are you saying that Nelson Mandela personally ordered the necklace murders of black Africans ?

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