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Thread: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

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    re: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

    Quote Originally Posted by Carjosse View Post
    He freed millions of people from Apartheid rule and gave them freedom, past connections is his youth mean nothing. When he was president of South Africa he was definitely not communist. Do you not like Blacks having rights and democracy? Margaret Thatcher never really accomplished anything of note especially on the world stage besides being friends with Reagan.
    Millions of East Europeans who deeply revere Margaret Thatcher for challenging the Communist rule before anyone else did might disagree.

    Regarding Mandela, in his youth he was a thug. A mindless tool of Commies and a terrorist.

    In his old age, he was the man who steered a long-suffering country away from an impending civil war, toward a peaceful resolution of a conflict most people in the world could not imagine being ever resolved.

    That's something. That deserves recognition, whatever his ideology and friendships are.

    Don't get me wrong: Those friendships, from Joe Slovo to Muammar Kaddafi, are most disgusting. But in the end, he will remembered for the good that he did, not for these (serious) errors of judgment.

    Nikita Khrushchev was a wild-eyed Communist, up to his elbows in innocent blood in the1930s in Russia and Ukraine, butcher of Hungary, etc, etc. Yet he will be remembered forever for something different: for ending Stalinism and releasing millions from the labor camps - for saving millions of lives, actually. After Khrushchev, the USSR was just another nasty authoritarian regime, where you could survive just fine, if you kept your head down - nothing like the surreal meat-grinder of the Lenin-Stalin totalitarian era.

    In my family, when I was growing up in Moscow, Nikita was deeply admired. Not because we thought he was some kind of saint - we knew he was nowhere close. Simply because we owed him our lives.

    Is our admiration a betrayal of those Ukrainians, Hungarians - and some fellow Poles - who were murdered under his watch, when he was just another ambitious and ruthless Comrade Commissar? I don't know. It is a hard question.

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    re: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    You're*

    None of which back up what MacDonald is saying, nor are all of them verifiable. Many of them are also vary outdated.
    Outdated ?

    Your trying to say it's not revisionist history ?

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    re: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Let me give you a personal example. My grandfather was a holocaust survivor, he managed to escape from one of the deportation trains going from a transit camp to what he suspected was a death camp. While hiding from the Nazis he murdered German colonists who had come as farmers to Poland. He did this to steal their food and undermine the German presence in the region before linking up with other cells and groups further east. This was quite obviously classified by the Nazis as murderous activity. I'd call it justified, I'd call it a blow for freedom.
    One can perhaps cut your grandfather some slack, given what he had himself suffered at the hands of the Germans, but it doesn't change the fact that what he did meets every rational definition of robbery, murder and terrorism, and not of legitimate “freedom fighting”. Even in war, there are standards of ethical conduct, and what you describe here does not meet these standards.

    If there had been any body interested in pursuing such prosecutions, your grandfather could very legitimately have been tried and convicted as a war criminal.
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    re: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    Typical lib, trying to white wash the past.
    What earthly relevance does Obama's "associations" with Wright and Ayers have in this discussion? If you answered "absolutely none, and I never should have brought it up," then you, APACHERAT, are on the right track.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    re: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Maybe, I dunno. Wasn't my decision to make. Just pointing out that the "he's not an American" argument doesn't hold much water.
    Actually, yes it does as I have posted.

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    re: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    Outdated ?

    Your trying to say it's not revisionist history ?
    One of those sources is from 1990. That's almost 24 years ago.

    Second, it's widely known Mandela views on communism changed from the point he was put in prison to when he was elected. What policies he pursued as President make than clearly evident.

    But please, keep trying to prove your nonsense arguments with right wing blogs. It's hilarious.
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    re: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Actually, yes it does as I have posted.
    Where?
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    re: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    I think it is the right thing to do. It is a way for our country to show its respect for the recently departed. It doesn't bother me whether he was an American or not. We have flown the flag at half mast for several public figures previously.
    No, we haven't. It takes an extraordinary connection to our country to go half staff with our falg at their demise. Mandela, not even close.

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    re: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    What earthly relevance does Obama's "associations" with Wright and Ayers have in this discussion? If you answered "absolutely none, and I never should have brought it up," then you, APACHERAT, are on the right track.
    Bill Ayers was a radical leftist terrorist just like Nelson Mendela.

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    re: Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    No, we haven't. It takes an extraordinary connection to our country to go half staff with our falg at their demise. Mandela, not even close.
    Yes, we have.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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