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Thread: Activists urge Obama to go rogue, sidestep Congress

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    Re: Activists urge Obama to go rogue, sidestep Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    But that is a matter of non-enforcement. That is a lot easier than trying to rewrite laws that would require enforcement.
    If you think that PPACA is not being enforced then you haven't been paying attention.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Activists urge Obama to go rogue, sidestep Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    If you think that PPACA is not being enforced then you haven't been paying attention.
    Well it is, but the changes Obama is making to it are all towards non-enforcement.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Activists urge Obama to go rogue, sidestep Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Well it is, but the changes Obama is making to it are all towards non-enforcement.
    I disagree. Obama is trying to hide the fact, via delay and temporary bribes to insurance providers, that PPACA is a very bad deal for very many people. If PPACA was merely Medicaid expansion paid for by added taxation on the rich (like the UHC dream of many) that would be no big deal (yet unlikely to have passed congress). What Obama is doing is delaying the "bad parts" of PPACA until after the 2014 elections hoping that we will forget that they are just around the corner. According to Obama, PPACA is a good deal, the "law of the land" (but subject to endless tweaking) and we must simply learn to accept it
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Activists urge Obama to go rogue, sidestep Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Not sure about Boehner. I feel he is just as pissed about this as you and I are. The problem is, what is the remedy.

    There are only two remedies at this time; 1) taking the Executive to court in the DC Circuit (which the Senate just packed with Democrat appointees), and of course... 2) impeachment.

    Neither are good options at this time.

    If the Executive Branch takes further actions, like raising the minimum wage or giving amnesty to illegal immigrants without Congressional approval, THEN the Congress can go to the court and if they won't issue a stay, then they can use the nuclear option of impeachment (although there's no way that will succeed as long as the Senate is in full Democrat control).
    There is a 3rd option. One that would have to run parallel to using the courts...And that IMHO, is for members of the House and Senate that don't like what is happening, to throw their weight behind an Article 5 convention. Get it out there in the public.
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    Re: Activists urge Obama to go rogue, sidestep Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    There is a 3rd option. One that would have to run parallel to using the courts...And that IMHO, is for members of the House and Senate that don't like what is happening, to throw their weight behind an Article 5 convention. Get it out there in the public.
    Please... NO....That would be the most chaotic crazy circus that ever existed. If we open up the Constitution for a total total rewrite... holy crap... I can't even imagine the mass hysteria that would ensue.

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    Re: Activists urge Obama to go rogue, sidestep Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    < snip >
    When a president claims the inherent power of both legislation and enforcement, he becomes a virtual government unto himself. He is not simply posing a danger to the constitutional system; he becomes the very danger that the Constitution was designed to avoid.

    Very strong indeed....Remember this is a supporter of Obama saying these things....

    Is Obama overreaching? And will the people put a stop to it?

    "Fundamental Transformation?"
    That final sentence in his testimony sums up perfectly what the danger here is. It's "transformation" to a fundamentally totalitarian state. I simply don't know how it's possible to gloss this over or diminish the danger we're facing as a nation right now. That's NOT hyperbole. This is real; and it's happening before our very eyes.
    Who chimes "No Absolutes!" chimes absolutely.

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    Re: Activists urge Obama to go rogue, sidestep Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I disagree. What Obama did (and will continue to do) with PPACA, is mainly said to be changing dates and numbers in a current law. Adding $8/hour to the minimum wage needs no federal spending and it is a "modification" or "rule change" to an existing federal law, just like Obama is doing with PPACA.
    There is no presidential authority to modify or rule change anything except his practices and policies for managing his one presidency.

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    Re: Activists urge Obama to go rogue, sidestep Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by EdwinWillers View Post
    That final sentence in his testimony sums up perfectly what the danger here is. It's "transformation" to a fundamentally totalitarian state. I simply don't know how it's possible to gloss this over or diminish the danger we're facing as a nation right now. That's NOT hyperbole. This is real; and it's happening before our very eyes.
    What the Constitution lacks is much power to stop a president who decides he instead wants to be dictator. Violating the Constitution, unfortunately, is not a stated impeachable offense, nor is violating the oath of office. The flaw, it would seem, is a belief that only honorable people who belief in Constitutional government and rule of law would ever become president.

    This is not the first time this problem has arisen. THE most extreme was President Jackson totally defining the Supreme Court ruling the Cherokee owned their land, for which Jackson laughed at the Supreme Court openly, and militarily removed the Cherokee giving their land to white people and killed hundreds of Cherokee on a death march similar to how the Japanese marched prisoners on death marches - for the Cherokee most killed by Jackson were little children and old people. The Supreme Court was powerless. If it had the power to remove a president it would not be.

    The Supreme Court should have been given the power to remove a president for such reasons, but wasn't. Since the Supreme Court has power in all other regards, even approve executions of citizens, it should have the power to remove a president who fundamentally violates the Constitution and Bill of Rights, or for the other reasons stated for removal of a president.

    Such a "trial" of a president should be by the highest court - just as ALL trials are by courts - and not by politicians who are not required to have any legal expertise whatsoever and can be politically influenced. Supreme Court members can not be political pressured no have reason to fear political retaliation by a president.
    Last edited by joko104; 12-06-13 at 02:56 PM.

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    Re: Activists urge Obama to go rogue, sidestep Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    There is no presidential authority to modify or rule change anything except his practices and policies for managing his one presidency.
    What? Are you saying that because PPACA is "new", or signed by Obama that, Obama can mess with its dates/numbers yet cannot mess with the minimum wage number? Or do you mean that Obama can mess with anything/everything but the next president can undo or modify the law as they see fit as well.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Activists urge Obama to go rogue, sidestep Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Please... NO....That would be the most chaotic crazy circus that ever existed. If we open up the Constitution for a total total rewrite... holy crap... I can't even imagine the mass hysteria that would ensue.
    No one said anything about a "total total rewrite".... But this option does exist in our constitution, I believe for this very purpose.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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