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South Africa's Nelson Mandela dies in Johannesburg[W102]

I find it extremely telling, ho wmany right wingers on this board, hate him more than most racist Afrikaners do...

most of the things right wingers have said about him over the years I've been here have been absolute crap including what's in this thread.

And the fact they go after him over the creation of the militant wing of the ANC which was in direct response to the sharpville massacre (when some of them seem to want to start shooting at the government over bullet clip restrictions), and which in its beginnings we're simply acts of sabotage, yes some members murdered but after he went to prison and without his approval. Which is why along with members of the White Security forces, members of Umkhonto We Sizwe also went before the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

I am South African, I was born in 1989, I grew up and went to public South African schools and my family owned many businesses during our time there and I am white.

I can tell you that South Africa is far from perfect, Mandela is far from perfect.

In his earliest days indeed he was a socialist, but when you look at the actions of his government when he actually came to power, they resemble NOTHING of what the original ANC charter was in the 60's namely nationalizing mines and banks etc. which never happened, never came close to happening and HE COULD HAVE DONE IT.

But his most important contributions to our country, namely the relative peace he brought was nothing short of a miracle, and while South Africa isn't perfect and still has far to go I know I grew up in a South Africa that was better with him than without him.

I am thankful that he lived and I am saddened that he died.

He achieved the impossible and freed a nation.

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Cry, the beloved country.
 
Zyphlin said:
Mr Mandela led South Africa's transition from white-minority rule in the 1990s, after 27 years in prison for his political activities.
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Mandela was sent to prison for his terrorist activities.

There were tens of thousands in South Africa who had the same political ideology as Mandela but didn't resort to murder, rape and participated in terrorist bombings so they didn't end up in prison like Mandela did.
 
Jetboogieman said:
I find it extremely telling, ho wmany right wingers on this board, hate him more than most racist Afrikaners do...

most of the things right wingers have said about him over the years I've been here have been absolute crap including what's in this thread.

And the fact they go after him over the creation of the militant wing of the ANC which was in direct response to the sharpville massacre (when some of them seem to want to start shooting at the government over bullet clip restrictions), and which in its beginnings we're simply acts of sabotage, yes some members murdered but after he went to prison and without his approval. Which is why along with members of the White Security forces, members of Umkhonto We Sizwe also went before the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

I am South African, I was born in 1989, I grew up and went to public South African schools and my family owned many businesses during our time there and I am white.

I can tell you that South Africa is far from perfect, Mandela is far from perfect.

In his earliest days indeed he was a socialist, but when you look at the actions of his government when he actually came to power, they resemble NOTHING of what the original ANC charter was in the 60's namely nationalizing mines and banks etc. which never happened, never came close to happening and HE COULD HAVE DONE IT.

But his most important contributions to our country, namely the relative peace he brought was nothing short of a miracle, and while South Africa isn't perfect and still has far to go I know I grew up in a South Africa that was better with him than without him.

I am thankful that he lived and I am saddened that he died.

He achieved the impossible and freed a nation.

article-1246040-0804178F000005DC-927_468x333.jpg


Cry, the beloved country.
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I don't know that I hate him, but his life needs to be taken in to account in its entirety before we start claiming what a great man he was.
 
Harshaw said:
That's exactly your kind of typical, uninformed idiocy. He was a military general duly appointed to command the Continental Army and conducted himself according to the customs and rules of warfare of . . . the times.
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He was rebel scum (guess the movie!) revolting against the legitimate rulers of the land and hence can be categorized as a terrorist due to the violence involved in his revolt.
 
Andalublue said:
The greatest statesman of the past century. He was a man of peace who recognised that circumstances don't always allow you to be a pacifist. He won, and he showed that great leaders show magnanimity in victory; they turn former enemies into friends and partners. He told the truth, both about the evils of the Apartheid régime and on wider, world issues. He exuded integrity, lightness of spirit, compassion and dogged determination. He was the opposite of partisan and the diametrical antonym of bigotted.

It doesn't surprise me to read those posters denigrating his memory, when you see who those posters are. Meh! They can knock themselves out. There's nothing a misanthropic nonentity on an internet forum can say that will alter the legacy of a truly great man. Best they get it out of their system here. Vent away, Sawyer!
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He wasn't a statesman. He was inflated by media.
 
PeteEU said:
He was rebel scum (guess the movie!) revolting against the legitimate rulers of the land and hence can be categorized as a terrorist due to the violence involved in his revolt.
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Not even the British saw him that way. Ever. Your wish (and preposterously self-serving definition of "terrorist") does not make it fact.
 
PeteEU said:
He was rebel scum (guess the movie!) revolting against the legitimate rulers of the land and hence can be categorized as a terrorist due to the violence involved in his revolt.
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60,000 people have been murdered since he took office.
 
Harshaw said:
Not even the British saw him that way. Ever. Your wish (and preposterously self-serving definition of "terrorist") does not make it fact.
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Are you seriously saying that the British did not see the American rebellion as a rebellion and the people involved as rebels?.
 
PeteEU said:
Are you seriously saying that the British did not see the American rebellion as a rebellion and the people involved as rebels?.
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No, I'm seriously pointing out your dishonesty in switching from saying he was considered a "terrorist" to (now!) merely a "rebel." They're not the same thing. But you changing your argument is nothing new.

Pro-tip: to avoid coming off as an idiot, stop posting idiotic things.
 
apdst said:
He was a communist.
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A Marxist that went non-orthodox and sold out to global capitalist investors. That should be praiseworthy.
 
Fiddytree said:
A Marxist that went non-orthodox and sold out to global capitalist investors. That should be praiseworthy.
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He was a good Communist? Are there good Nazis, too?
 
Harshaw said:
No, I'm seriously pointing out your dishonesty in switching from saying he was considered a "terrorist" to (now!) merely a "rebel." They're not the same thing. But you changing your argument is nothing new.

Pro-tip: to avoid coming off as an idiot, stop posting idiotic things.
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One mans rebel/freedom fighter is another mans terrorist.

Arafat was to his people a rebel/freedom fighter, but to the US and Israel he was a terrorist. Just one of many examples.
 
apdst said:
He was a good Communist? Are there good Nazis, too?
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I shouldn't be surprised you ignore what he believed what he was younger rather than WHAT HE ACTUALLY DID AS LEADER OF OUR COUNTRY.

I suppose though since he replaced the government that killed innocent blacks by the thousands you would be pissed off wouldn't you?
 
apdst said:
He was a good Communist? Are there good Nazis, too?
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If you are a capitalist or an economic imperialist, and you got a newly energized South Africa, do you want Mandela to nationalize industry and cut off investments? I wouldn't. As slow as the development has been, criticizing Mandela for being a Marxist is pretty damn stupid and anti-capitalist.
 
PeteEU said:
One mans rebel/freedom fighter is another mans terrorist.

Arafat was to his people a rebel/freedom fighter, but to the US and Israel he was a terrorist. Just one of many examples.
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No. A terrorist does specific things that others don't, and Washington, as a military general, did not do those things. This line of false-equivalence argument is typical PeteEU bull****.
 
apdst said:
100,000 Americans were murdered because of a Bush policy? Link?
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You didn't say Americans with your 60,000 number..
He didn't say Americans with his 100,000 number..
Then you invented the word Americans .
 
Jetboogieman said:
I shouldn't be surprised you ignore what he believed what he was younger rather than WHAT HE ACTUALLY DID AS LEADER OF OUR COUNTRY.

I suppose though since he replaced the government that killed innocent blacks by the thousands you would be pissed off wouldn't you?
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Mandela's government has allowed 60,000 people to be murdered. Why aren't YOU pissed off?
 
apdst said:
Mandela's government has allowed 60,000 people to be murdered. Why aren't YOU pissed off?
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That is completely and utterly untrue!

I don't know why you have such a hatred for the man.

You never lived there I ****ING DID.

Crime is a problem in South Africa and ABSOLUTELY NO ONE IS SAYING IT ISN'T.

Most of it is black on black crime in the Townships that are a direct result of apartheid.

Lack of education, infrastructure in black areas as a direct result of apartheid.

Crime has been slowly but surely decreasing since 1994 but one thing is for sure, it is not Mandelas fault.

Why are you more outrage about crime that occurred after apartheid ended... then innocent blacks being gunned down by a murderous regime?

I thought you were one of those "freedom" people?

Although crime was bad, South Africa was free for all intents and purposes, crime committed by individuals as opposed to direct government murder of innocents?

I suppose when it's blacks being gunned down it's not as big a deal to you is it?
 
apdst said:
Mandela's government has allowed 60,000 people to be murdered. Why aren't YOU pissed off?
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How many folks have been murdered in America during the same time frame apsdt?
 
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