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Thread: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:465]

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    Re: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Umm no, a premature rupture of membranes (PROM) does not mean that they need to get that baby out.

    What happens if my water breaks too early? - Parents.com
    It doesn't mean that it won't be born either:

    "...it doesn't necessarily mean your baby will be born right away."

    "Necessarily" being the operative word there.

    You're dodging my question. I asked if you really think it's believable that the woman knew she should have labor induced and refused to be transferred to another hospital and the hospital made no note of that on her record?
    It's possible I guess...We don't know yet, and neither do you.

    And that when her condition continued to deteriorate, she returned to the hospital that she knew could not treat her properly and then again refused to be transferred to the hospital where she could be properly treated?
    I think that is obvious. She continued to go back. As for being transferred? I don't know, and neither do you.
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    Re: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    It doesn't mean that it won't be born either:

    "...it doesn't necessarily mean your baby will be born right away."

    "Necessarily" being the operative word there.
    You are being very dishonest. You asked:
    Is there a woman alive that doesn't know that when their water breaks, that they need to get that baby out?
    Your question presupposes that when water breaks, the baby needs to come out. It doesn't.

    And now that you've been proven wrong, you're going to pretend that you didn't infer that water breaking requires delivery



    It's possible I guess...We don't know yet, and neither do you.



    I think that is obvious. She continued to go back. As for being transferred? I don't know, and neither do you.
    You're being dishonest again. I didn't ask if she went back. We all know that she did. The question is why would she go back if she was informed about the treatment she needed and was told that CHM would not provide that treatment?

    You're dodging the question. Do you believe that she refused to be transferred knowing that it was the only way she could get treated because the doctors told her it was the only way to get the treatment she needed? And do you believe that she returned to the hospital knowing that it would not provide the treatment she needed? And do you believe that this happened and the hospital did not note this on her records?
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    You are being very dishonest.
    Here we go....Sigh....Yeah, yeah, yeah....everyone but you is a liar, everyone is being dishonest....I'm going to stop right here with you, largely because you don't know how to have a normal discussion. So, stay chilly....

    PS. I know this is now the time for you to childishly come back with some sort of insult, so don't waste the space brother, I feel the same about you....buh bye now.
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    Re: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Here we go....Sigh....Yeah, yeah, yeah....everyone but you is a liar, everyone is being dishonest....I'm going to stop right here with you, largely because you don't know how to have a normal discussion. So, stay chilly....

    PS. I know this is now the time for you to childishly come back with some sort of insult, so don't waste the space brother, I feel the same about you....buh bye now.
    Of course you're going to run away. Even you're smart enough to realize how stupid your argument is. After all, who is going to believe that the woman was told that she needed a procedure that the hospital didn't provide and then refused to be taken to a hospital that did provide it in favor of going home and enduring severe pain? And then believe that she returned to hospital knowing that they would not treat her? And then, to top it off, believe that the hospital made no note of this on her record?

    Instead, you'll try to pretend that you didn't make this argument, and pretend that you didn't infer that any woman whose water breaks should know that she has to have an abortion or labor induced, even though that's not true.

    There's nothing dishonest about that

    Your entire argument is as dishonest as your sig
    Last edited by sangha; 12-13-13 at 03:50 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Of course you're going to run away. Even you're smart enough to realize how stupid your argument is. After all, who is going to believe that the woman was told that she needed a procedure that the hospital didn't provide and then refused to be taken to a hospital that did provide it in favor of going home and enduring severe pain? And then believe that she returned to hospital knowing that they would not treat her? And then, to top it off, believe that the hospital made no note of this on her record?

    Instead, you'll try to pretend that you didn't make this argument, and pretend that you didn't infer that any woman whose water breaks should know that she has to have an abortion or labor induced, even though that's not true.

    There's nothing dishonest about that

    Your entire argument is as dishonest as your sig

    Pathetic....
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Pathetic....
    You've already said that you won't defend your pitiful argument. No need for you to sound the retreat a second time
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    You've already said that you won't defend your pitiful argument. No need for you to sound the retreat a second time
    "retreat" That's a good one....

    Why don't you see if you can have a rational conversation, here, I'll even start it

    Yes, I did say that every woman knew that breaking water resulted in having the baby, you posted information to refute it...Score one for you, although I would say that the condition you pointed out is not the norm.

    As for what the woman was told, or not told about by the doctors, nurses, or tech's taking care of her that night, I don't know, and neither do you. Did she refuse to be transported to the other hospital 37 miles away? I don't know. I wasn't there. Were you?

    On the point of the hospital being more than 30 minutes away, I would say that technically that is true if you are doing 60 mph on the highway, but it is possible to travel 37 miles in 30 minutes or less. The article used these terms for distance, as well as saying that her hospital was the only one in the county to make it seem like she had no other options, and clearly she did.

    My opinion is that if she was in pain, water broke, and she is being sent home, but doesn't believe she should be, then she should have gotten in the car, and told her friend to take her to the other hospital.

    The problem here is that we have an incomplete story, with only her side of things being presented. You have no doc records, no hospital records, no testimony from hospital staff, doctors or otherwise. And yet you jump to conclusions based on incomplete evidence to take a side against the Catholic hospital simply because you think they should be forced to perform abortions...

    Now, let's see if you can have a conversation without your usual grating tactics, and act like a normal person.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    According to the legal complaint when they sent her home the second time the hospital ( MPH ) told the patient to return if her fever went again or if her contractions became unbearable.
    Those are standard discharge instructions for ob patients.

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    Re: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    "retreat" That's a good one....

    Why don't you see if you can have a rational conversation, here, I'll even start it

    Yes, I did say that every woman knew that breaking water resulted in having the baby, you posted information to refute it...Score one for you, although I would say that the condition you pointed out is not the norm.
    The fact is you argued as if it were not only the norm, but that it applied in every case. Not only that, but you argued that a woman should know enough that she should disregard what a doctor told her in favor of info that isn't even true.


    As for what the woman was told, or not told about by the doctors, nurses, or tech's taking care of her that night, I don't know, and neither do you. Did she refuse to be transported to the other hospital 37 miles away? I don't know. I wasn't there. Were you?
    And I asked you if it is reasonable to believe that she was told about the need to induce labor but chose instead to suffer with severe pain even though it would not prevent the need to go through labor? And if it were reasonable to believe that she returned to a hospital where she knew she would not be given the treatment that the hospital told her she needed? And if it were reasonable to believe that in such a circumstance, the hospital would make no note on her records that she refused to be transferred even though she was informed of the need?

    Instead of discussing the reasonableness of this occurring, you threw a hissy fit and still you won't discuss how reasonable your supposition is


    On the point of the hospital being more than 30 minutes away, I would say that technically that is true if you are doing 60 mph on the highway, but it is possible to travel 37 miles in 30 minutes or less. The article used these terms for distance, as well as saying that her hospital was the only one in the county to make it seem like she had no other options, and clearly she did.
    When talking about travelling time, it is SOP to use legal speed limits on the roads that are actually travelled, and not use hypothetical possibilities. There's nothing "dishonest" (the word you used, IIRC) about reporting the distance the way such things are normally reported


    My opinion is that if she was in pain, water broke, and she is being sent home, but doesn't believe she should be, then she should have gotten in the car, and told her friend to take her to the other hospital.
    Since the doctor sent her home, you have no reason to claim that she did not believe she should have been sent home. You are now engaging in the sort of unproven claims that you criticize the lawsuit for engaging in.


    The problem here is that we have an incomplete story, with only her side of things being presented. You have no doc records, no hospital records, no testimony from hospital staff, doctors or otherwise. And yet you jump to conclusions based on incomplete evidence to take a side against the Catholic hospital simply because you think they should be forced to perform abortions...

    Now, let's see if you can have a conversation without your usual grating tactics, and act like a normal person.
    We are having a discussion using the facts we have available. It is a discussion board. Maybe you haven't noticed, but we do this all the time.

    If you want to participate and post speculative scenarios, go right ahead. Nothing wrong with that. Just don't expect that your speculations won't be subjected to arguments which suggest that your scenario is not only unlikely, but a bit bizarre

    PS - As far as "acting like a normal person" goes, normal people don't run away the first time their argument is challenged the way you did

    PPS - for your edification, I reposting the exchange where you ran away from my question. Please not that I engaged in no name calling, nor did I question your honesty. I merely asked if your supposition (that she had been informed) were a reasonable one

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No, I didn't say that. I said that it is possible that the doctors told her that she had a problem, but they could not address it, but she continued to come back instead of driving the 37 minutes to the next hospital. But we don't know yet because all you have is her account of the situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The law I cited earlier requires the hospital to arrange a transfer to another hospital when a patient needs a procedure that the hospital does not perform. So now you're arguing that she knew she needed to have labor induced, she wanted to have labor induced, but when told the hospital was going to send her to a hospital that could perform the procedure she wanted, she said "No, I'm not going there. Instead I'm going to go home, suffer severe pain, and come back here where you can't perform the procedure I need"?
    Instead of answering any of the questions I posed, you dodged the question with a red herring about water breaking

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Is there a woman alive that doesn't know that when their water breaks, that they need to get that baby out?

    Now, you do have a point about transportation, however, we need to see how this plays out in court with facts. Remember, all you have is one side of the story here.
    So I pointed out that you dodged the question

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Umm no, a premature rupture of membranes (PROM) does not mean that they need to get that baby out.

    What happens if my water breaks too early? - Parents.com




    You're dodging my question. I asked if you really think it's believable that the woman knew she should have labor induced and refused to be transferred to another hospital and the hospital made no note of that on her record? And that when her condition continued to deteriorate, she returned to the hospital that she knew could not treat her properly and then again refused to be transferred to the hospital where she could be properly treated?
    Again, I did not name call or say anything about honesty.

    And the fact is, you *still* haven't answered my questions about how believable your supposition (and what it infers) is. All you have done is say that it is "possible", but you haven't answered my question as to whether it is believable.

    Normal people defend their arguments. You have not done so
    Last edited by sangha; 12-13-13 at 06:01 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  10. #550
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    Re: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Those are standard discharge instructions for ob patients.
    She should not have been discharged.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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