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Thread: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:465]

  1. #491
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    Re: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    It is a policy decision. And this case is about policy. You are too quick to jump on it when you don't really understand it. This case is not about medical negligence, it is about policy. She is accusing the hospital of acting in accordance with a policy. The same as a Jewish or muslim deli is acting in accordance with a policy when they refuse to serve pork. I realize that it is difficult for someone without a legal background to understand.
    It is about possible medical negligence. You don't send an 18 week pregnant woman home with pain killers after their water breaks. This is always a very bad thing especially for a fetus. Almost guaranteed to lead to a miscarriage. If the catholic hospital really cares about fetuses like they say, it stands to reason that they would do everything possible to save the fetus. And yet they sent her home which seems to me to be a very strange way to try to save a miscarrying fetus. This points to a conclusion that the hospital and staff knew the fetus was dead or doomed. However they should have known it was alive at this point, if they had performed an ultrasound.

    One might say that the first time they sent her home with pain medication, they were hoping the problem takes care of itself. I guess it was presumed that the fetus would be delivered at home, the mother notices the baby is breathing and rushes back to the hospital where it will later die. But that didn't happen.

    The pregnant woman goes back to the hospital a second time, in severe pain. The hospital has already determined, as proved by their prior actions, that the fetus is doomed and now the pregnant woman is in severe pain which obviously means that the miscarriage is normal, right? There isn't any bleeding or other signs of complications, is there? Because if there were such signs, one would think that the possibility of a fatal hemorrhage is now considerably greater. And of course the proper action in this case is to send the pregnant woman home with more pain meds? Is that the extent of their care: take 2 aspirin and call me in the morning?

    It is alleged the pain reaches a level 10 out of 10 and so the pregnant woman returns to the hospital for third time. At this point, as a layman, some very loud alarm bells would be going off in my head. And yet they were in the process of sending her home for a freaking third time when she delivers a breach baby. I will let you think about that for a second.

    A freaking breach baby. Severe level 10 pain. Did anyone do an ultrasound to see the baby FFS, especially at the 3rd visit? If someone had done an ultrasound and somehow didn't notice the miscarrying baby was breach, that is negligence. If an ultrasound was not done even when all the symptoms point towards dangerous complications, that is negligence. If they knew about the breach and still sent or tried to send her home, that is possibly gross negligence. Sending a person home with level 10 pain is negligence.

    So yes this lawsuit is about negligence.
    Last edited by RogueWarrior; 12-11-13 at 02:33 PM.
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    Re: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by RogueWarrior View Post
    It is about possible medical negligence. You don't send an 18 week pregnant woman home with pain killers after their water breaks. This is always a very bad thing especially for a fetus. Almost guaranteed to lead to a miscarriage. If the catholic hospital really cares about fetuses like they say, it stands to reason that they would do everything possible to save the fetus. And yet they sent her home which seems to me to be a very strange way to try to save a miscarrying fetus. This points to a conclusion that the hospital and staff knew the fetus was dead or doomed. However they should have known it was alive at this point, if they had performed an ultrasound.

    One might say that the first time they sent her home with pain medication, they were hoping the problem takes care of itself. I guess it was presumed that the fetus would be delivered at home, the mother notices the baby is breathing and rushes back to the hospital where it will later die. But that didn't happen.

    The pregnant woman goes back to the hospital a second time, in severe pain. The hospital has already determined, as proved by their prior actions, that the fetus is doomed and now the pregnant woman is in severe pain which obviously means that the miscarriage is normal, right? There isn't any bleeding or other signs of complications, is there? Because if there were such signs, one would think that the possibility of a fatal hemorrhage is now considerably greater. And of course the proper action in this case is to send the pregnant woman home with more pain meds? Is that the extent of their care: take 2 aspirin and call me in the morning?

    It is alleged the pain reaches a level 10 out of 10 and so the pregnant woman returns to the hospital for third time. At this point, as a layman, some very loud alarm bells would be going off in my head. And yet they were in the process of sending her home for a freaking third time when she delivers a breach baby. I will let you think about that for a second.

    A freaking breach baby. Severe level 10 pain. Did anyone do an ultrasound to see the baby FFS, especially at the 3rd visit? If someone had done an ultrasound and somehow didn't notice the miscarrying baby was breach, that is negligence. If an ultrasound was not done even when all the symptoms point towards dangerous complications, that is negligence. If they knew about the breach and still sent or tried to send her home, that is possibly gross negligence. Sending a person home with level 10 pain is negligence.

    So yes this lawsuit is about negligence.
    You dont understand the legal definitions of the worlds you mention. They aren't even suing medical personel.

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    Re: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    I answered the question. You did not like the answer.
    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You did?
    Yes, I indicated that they needed to assure the safety of the patient - and that means they could send the patient to a different facility. Doesn't that say to you they are not bound to do a procedure?

    I have said from the beginning, I am perfectly ok with the Catholic Hospital not allowing abortion. But as part of the medical profession, they are professionally obligated to explain to the patient what is going wrong with their body. If they did not explain these things fully to her, and the inherent risks....they were amazingly out of line.

    (notice I -again-said "if")

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    Re: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by RogueWarrior View Post
    It is about possible medical negligence. You don't send an 18 week pregnant woman home with pain killers after their water breaks. This is always a very bad thing especially for a fetus. Almost guaranteed to lead to a miscarriage. If the catholic hospital really cares about fetuses like they say, it stands to reason that they would do everything possible to save the fetus. And yet they sent her home which seems to me to be a very strange way to try to save a miscarrying fetus. This points to a conclusion that the hospital and staff knew the fetus was dead or doomed. However they should have known it was alive at this point, if they had performed an ultrasound.

    One might say that the first time they sent her home with pain medication, they were hoping the problem takes care of itself. I guess it was presumed that the fetus would be delivered at home, the mother notices the baby is breathing and rushes back to the hospital where it will later die. But that didn't happen.

    The pregnant woman goes back to the hospital a second time, in severe pain. The hospital has already determined, as proved by their prior actions, that the fetus is doomed and now the pregnant woman is in severe pain which obviously means that the miscarriage is normal, right? There isn't any bleeding or other signs of complications, is there? Because if there were such signs, one would think that the possibility of a fatal hemorrhage is now considerably greater. And of course the proper action in this case is to send the pregnant woman home with more pain meds? Is that the extent of their care: take 2 aspirin and call me in the morning?

    It is alleged the pain reaches a level 10 out of 10 and so the pregnant woman returns to the hospital for third time. At this point, as a layman, some very loud alarm bells would be going off in my head. And yet they were in the process of sending her home for a freaking third time when she delivers a breach baby. I will let you think about that for a second.

    A freaking breach baby. Severe level 10 pain. Did anyone do an ultrasound to see the baby FFS, especially at the 3rd visit? If someone had done an ultrasound and somehow didn't notice the miscarrying baby was breach, that is negligence. If an ultrasound was not done even when all the symptoms point towards dangerous complications, that is negligence. If they knew about the breach and still sent or tried to send her home, that is possibly gross negligence. Sending a person home with level 10 pain is negligence.

    So yes this lawsuit is about negligence.
    And in the framework of a medical institution, hospital rules and regulations that may require physicians to act in such a way.

  5. #495
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    Re: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    And in the framework of a medical institution, hospital rules and regulations that may require physicians to act in such a way.
    Can you point to those regulations? You said they may have been "professionally obligated" but professional obligations are not laws or even regs. So, as wrong as you or I may believe that is, there is no legal recourse. Which could be why the woman is going after the bishops, and not the doc, or hospital.
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    Re: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Can you point to those regulations? You said they may have been "professionally obligated" but professional obligations are not laws or even regs. So, as wrong as you or I may believe that is, there is no legal recourse. Which could be why the woman is going after the bishops, and not the doc, or hospital.
    They are apparently going after rules and regulations that may be required that could lead to the harm or suffering of a patient.

    If as a nurse my hospital tells me I have to do a procedure a certain way, and I follow procedure...if the way in which the procedure was performed causes harm, I may be totally off the hook.

    By the way, is there anything preventing her from going after the doctors as well in a second lawsuit?

    I will be interested to see both sides of this as more information is available.

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    Re: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    They are apparently going after rules and regulations that may be required that could lead to the harm or suffering of a patient.

    If as a nurse my hospital tells me I have to do a procedure a certain way, and I follow procedure...if the way in which the procedure was performed causes harm, I may be totally off the hook.

    By the way, is there anything preventing her from going after the doctors as well in a second lawsuit?

    I will be interested to see both sides of this as more information is available.
    The lawsuit against the Bishops and others was filed was a Federal lawsuit since they are out of state defendants.
    If she bought suit against the hospital or the medical personnel I think that would be filed as a state lawsuit so it is quite possible she could file a negligent suit against the hospital and or hospital in a second lawsuit.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    They are apparently going after rules and regulations that may be required that could lead to the harm or suffering of a patient.

    If as a nurse my hospital tells me I have to do a procedure a certain way, and I follow procedure...if the way in which the procedure was performed causes harm, I may be totally off the hook.

    By the way, is there anything preventing her from going after the doctors as well in a second lawsuit?

    I will be interested to see both sides of this as more information is available.
    "May be" is the operative here. An oath is not a law or a reg. Neither is "procedure".

    If she goes after the doc, then there is more to consider.

    But, o agree it will be interesting.
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    Re: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    "May be" is the operative here. An oath is not a law or a reg. Neither is "procedure".

    If she goes after the doc, then there is more to consider.

    But, o agree it will be interesting.
    But to stay accredited and receive medicare (etc)monies, they need to comply with a certain standard of practice. If they fall outside of a standard of practice that is not accepted - and their own policies prevent them from accepted practices being followed...they could be in danger of losing accreditation.

    And again, it is not the performance of an abortion that may be at issue, it would be how best to handle a woman in medical distress.

    It will be interesting to see what the policies are from "up above" are translated at the hospital level and inevitably by the doctors.

    Interesting to follow.

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    Re: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    But to stay accredited and receive medicare (etc)monies, they need to comply with a certain standard of practice. If they fall outside of a standard of practice that is not accepted - and their own policies prevent them from accepted practices being followed...they could be in danger of losing accreditation.

    And again, it is not the performance of an abortion that may be at issue, it would be how best to handle a woman in medical distress.

    It will be interesting to see what the policies are from "up above" are translated at the hospital level and inevitably by the doctors.

    Interesting to follow.
    I'll go with that, we have to wait and see.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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