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Thread: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:465]

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    Re: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    SO now that your question has been shown to be irrelevant, you're going to move the goalposts.
    Nope, wrong
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    Re: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    I answered the question. You did not like the answer.
    You did?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Nope, wrong
    LOL! You've been reduced to chanting "Nuh-uh"!
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    LOL! You've been reduced to chanting "Nuh-uh"!
    You think so?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Your point was that the doctors did not know the condition of the woman's fetus.

    Your point was a lie and exposed as such, so now you're pretending that your point is something else
    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    It is a policy decision. And this case is about policy. You are too quick to jump on it when you don't really understand it. This case is not about medical negligence, it is about policy. She is accusing the hospital of acting in accordance with a policy. The same as a Jewish or muslim deli is acting in accordance with a policy when they refuse to serve pork. I realize that it is difficult for someone without a legal background to understand.
    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I don't care what the Pope says.
    Yes, I am learning that you are not big on facts. LOL. But I do love that you are affording me the opportunity to clear up some things that most people are fairly muddy on.

    Catholic hospitals are not US corporations like most other hospitals in the US. Catholic hospitals are a mission of the Catholic church and all are affiliated with the Roman Catholic Church which is based in Vatican City. They are members of The Catholic Health Association of the US:

    The Catholic Health Association of the United States (CHA) was founded in 1915 as the Catholic Hospital Association of the United States and Canada. The association has offices in Washington, D.C. and St. Louis, Missouri. The association is a ministry of the Roman Catholic Church. Comprising more than 600 hospitals and 1,400 long-term care and other health facilities in all 50 states, the association is the largest group of non-profit health care providers in the nation.


    Every year, one in six hospitalized patients[quantify] in the United States is cared for in a Catholic health care facility. In addition, thousands of elders[quantify] in the U.S. live and are cared for in Catholic long-term care and other continuum of care facilities.

    The association is led by Sister Carol Keehan, a member of the Daughters of Charity, who assumed her duties as president and chief executive officer in 2005.
    Catholic Health Association of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    And they operate under the auspecis of the Catholic church. There has been controversy over abortion in the past. And I am not the only one who finds this case to be very weak.

    For example, the directives allow for treatments to cure a grave illness in a pregnant woman even if they result in the death of the child. That issue drew national attention in 2010 with the case of a nun and administrator at a Phoenix hospital who, in her role on the hospital ethics committee, approved an abortion to save the life of a pregnant woman. Phoenix Bishop Thomas Olmsted said the decision meant automatic excommunication for the nun and the hospital could no longer identify itself as Catholic.

    Robin Fretwell Wilson, a University of Illinois professor who specializes in family and health law, said a negligence claim would hinge in part on whether the ACLU can establish that the conference has some direct control in this case or in hospitals in general. The bishops have moral authority over local Catholic hospitals but are not involved in the day-to-day business of administration.

    "It's so many layers removed," Fretwell Wilson said, that she has "a difficult time buying" that the bishops' conference is legally responsible in this case.
    ACLU Sues US Bishops Over Catholic Hospital Ethics - ABC News

    Catholic hospitals are definitely expected to adhere to Catholic doctrine as shown above.

    Beyond that, a procedure that is needed to save the life of the mother is strictly a medical decision, and the doctor is the one who decides, not the patient.
    Last edited by Maenad; 12-11-13 at 01:10 PM.
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    Re: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    Yes, I am learning that you are not big on facts. LOL. But I do love that you are affording me the opportunity to clear up some things that most people are fairly muddy on.

    Catholic hospitals are not US corporations like most other hospitals in the US. Catholic hospitals are a mission of the Catholic church and all are affiliated with the Roman Catholic Church which is based in Vatican City. They are members of The Catholic Health Association of the US:



    Catholic Health Association of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    And they operate under the auspecis of the Catholic church. There has been controversy over abortion in the past. And I am not the only one who finds this case to be very weak.



    ACLU Sues US Bishops Over Catholic Hospital Ethics - ABC News

    Catholic hospitals are definitely expected to adhere to Catholic doctrine as shown above.
    Expected by whom?

    The Church expects one thing. The law expects another.

    When the two conflict, guess which one wins?


    Beyond that, a procedure that is needed to save the life of the mother is strictly a medical decision, and the doctor is the one who decides, not the patient.
    You are not big on facts.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Your point was that the doctors did not know the condition of the woman's fetus.

    Your point was a lie and exposed as such, so now you're pretending that your point is something else
    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    It is a policy decision. And this case is about policy. You are too quick to jump on it when you don't really understand it. This case is not about medical negligence, it is about policy. She is accusing the hospital of acting in accordance with a policy. The same as a Jewish or muslim deli is acting in accordance with a policy when they refuse to serve pork. I realize that it is difficult for someone without a legal background to understand.
    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Expected by whom?

    The Church expects one thing. The law expects another.

    When the two conflict, guess which one wins?




    You are not big on facts.
    To which laws would you be referring?

    And regarding a conflict of law: according to my class on Conflicts of Law, who wins is not as cut and dried as you want it to be. Many factors come into play.
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

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    Re: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    To which laws would you be referring?
    Asked and answered

    Disingenuous posts are disingenuous
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Your point was that the doctors did not know the condition of the woman's fetus.

    Your point was a lie and exposed as such, so now you're pretending that your point is something else
    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    It is a policy decision. And this case is about policy. You are too quick to jump on it when you don't really understand it. This case is not about medical negligence, it is about policy. She is accusing the hospital of acting in accordance with a policy. The same as a Jewish or muslim deli is acting in accordance with a policy when they refuse to serve pork. I realize that it is difficult for someone without a legal background to understand.
    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Asked and answered

    Disingenuous posts are disingenuous
    You did not answer. I asked for a citation of the law to back your assertion. I'll give you some time since you are struggling to answer my question. Maybe someone else can help you out.
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

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    Re: Catholic hospital 'risked woman's life by forcing her to deliver 18-week fetus[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    You did not answer. I asked for a citation of the law to back your assertion. I'll give you some time since you are struggling to answer my question. Maybe someone else can help you out.
    This has already been mentioned in this thread many times.

    Doctors are required to inform their patients of their condition and their treatment options.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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