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Thread: Is Big Oil Supporting a Carbon Tax?

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    Is Big Oil Supporting a Carbon Tax?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/05/bu...carbon.html?hp

    WASHINGTON — More than two dozen of the nation’s biggest corporations, including the five major oil companies, are planning their future growth on the expectation that the government will force them to pay a price for carbon pollution as a way to control global warming.

    The development is a striking departure from conservative orthodoxy and a reflection of growing divisions between the Republican Party and its business supporters.

    A new report by the environmental data company CDP has found that at least 29 companies, some with close ties to Republicans, including ExxonMobil, Walmart and American Electric Power, are incorporating a price on carbon into their long-term financial plans.

    Both supporters and opponents of action to fight global warming say the development is significant because businesses that chart a financial course to make money in a carbon-constrained future could be more inclined to support policies that address climate change.

    But unlike the five big oil companies — ExxonMobil, ConocoPhillips, Chevron, BP and Shell, all major contributors to the Republican party — Koch Industries, a conglomerate that has played a major role in pushing Republicans away from action on climate change, is ramping up an already-aggressive campaign against climate policy — specifically against any tax or price on carbon. Owned by the billionaire brothers Charles and David Koch, the company includes oil refiners and the paper-goods company Georgia-Pacific.
    What does this mean? Does this suggest that big business is moving away from its Republican ties, or that climate change will eventually become accepted within the GOP? Is this simply companies engaging in rational self interest, preparing for the future that is inevitably coming?

    Personally I welcome this attitude.
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    Re: Is Big Oil Supporting a Carbon Tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/05/bu...carbon.html?hp



    What does this mean? Does this suggest that big business is moving away from its Republican ties, or that climate change will eventually become accepted within the GOP? Is this simply companies engaging in rational self interest, preparing for the future that is inevitably coming?

    Personally I welcome this attitude.
    I don't think it necessarily portends any such shift. They are just being smart by planning - what is it they say "Failing to plan = planning to fail."


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    Re: Is Big Oil Supporting a Carbon Tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/05/bu...carbon.html?hp



    What does this mean? Does this suggest that big business is moving away from its Republican ties, or that climate change will eventually become accepted within the GOP? Is this simply companies engaging in rational self interest, preparing for the future that is inevitably coming?

    Personally I welcome this attitude.
    "The expectation that the government will force them to pay a price for carbon pollution" is not the same as supporting the idea that the government will force them to pay a price for carbon pollution.


    They're just reading the handwriting on t he wall, that's all.
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    Re: Is Big Oil Supporting a Carbon Tax?

    It probably means al gore has finally got enough big oil investors in his billion dollar carbon market exchange he's been promoting for the good of the planet (i mean his wallet). Big oil like many industries are about big dollars, and if they can collect big dollars from the masses to pay for the carbons they gladly will.


    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/05/bu...carbon.html?hp



    What does this mean? Does this suggest that big business is moving away from its Republican ties, or that climate change will eventually become accepted within the GOP? Is this simply companies engaging in rational self interest, preparing for the future that is inevitably coming?

    Personally I welcome this attitude.

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    Re: Is Big Oil Supporting a Carbon Tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/05/bu...carbon.html?hp



    What does this mean? Does this suggest that big business is moving away from its Republican ties, or that climate change will eventually become accepted within the GOP? Is this simply companies engaging in rational self interest, preparing for the future that is inevitably coming?

    Personally I welcome this attitude.
    It means they assume the inevitable, and that is all. The leftists in this country wouldn't dare take on China's polluting policies. You'll never see them over there.
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    Re: Is Big Oil Supporting a Carbon Tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post


    What does this mean? Does this suggest that big business is moving away from its Republican ties, or that climate change will eventually become accepted within the GOP? Is this simply companies engaging in rational self interest, preparing for the future that is inevitably coming?

    Personally I welcome this attitude.
    It depends on the company. Their exposure is mostly in energy/fuel consumption. For a company like Walmart, it could mean more natural lighting, lower ceilings; solar panels, ICF "lego block" construction, creating foyers that mitigate heating and cooling loss and the like. For an electric producer it could mean more solar on their grid; for Exxon it could mean changes to their distribution network to reduce fuel consumption--like using more rail or relocating distribution centers. Just depends on the cost-benefit of doing these sorts of things. A carbon tax is less to a business about social responsibility and more to a business about a rising cost. In reality, this could be thinking as much about us having passed the peak oil window as it is carbon taxing.

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    Re: Is Big Oil Supporting a Carbon Tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    It depends on the company. Their exposure is mostly in energy/fuel consumption. For a company like Walmart, it could mean more natural lighting, lower ceilings; solar panels, ICF "lego block" construction, creating foyers that mitigate heating and cooling loss and the like. For an electric producer it could mean more solar on their grid; for Exxon it could mean changes to their distribution network to reduce fuel consumption--like using more rail or relocating distribution centers. Just depends on the cost-benefit of doing these sorts of things. A carbon tax is less to a business about social responsibility and more to a business about a rising cost. In reality, this could be thinking as much about us having passed the peak oil window as it is carbon taxing.
    Or, they could simply get into the business of trading carbon credits. What they pay in carbon taxes, then, they'd get back by being a part of another lucrative market. It's a win- win (except, of course, for the poor schmuck paying five bucks a gallon at the pump).
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    Re: Is Big Oil Supporting a Carbon Tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Or, they could simply get into the business of trading carbon credits. What they pay in carbon taxes, then, they'd get back by being a part of another lucrative market. It's a win- win (except, of course, for the poor schmuck paying five bucks a gallon at the pump).
    I will see that in my lifetime with or without the carbon credits. The $85/barrel production costs are just going to go up. The days of cheap easily got oil are going the way of pet rocks, unicorns, and liberal sacrifice.

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    Re: Is Big Oil Supporting a Carbon Tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/05/bu...carbon.html?hp



    What does this mean? Does this suggest that big business is moving away from its Republican ties, or that climate change will eventually become accepted within the GOP? Is this simply companies engaging in rational self interest, preparing for the future that is inevitably coming?

    Personally I welcome this attitude.
    They're making plans that will allow them to survive government stupidity.
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    Re: Is Big Oil Supporting a Carbon Tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    I will see that in my lifetime with or without the carbon credits. The $85/barrel production costs are just going to go up. The days of cheap easily got oil are going the way of pet rocks, unicorns, and liberal sacrifice.
    No doubt that's true. Gas went close to five bucks here a couple of years ago already. Some places in still is higher than that. For some reason, the 395 corridor, going from LA to Reno, NV. has some of the most expensive and some of the cheapest gas in the area.
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