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Thread: Might be a delay getting your Big Mac today.

  1. #181
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    Re: Might be a delay getting your Big Mac today.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGirlNextDoor View Post
    They don't realize it yet.

    But they will.
    Ahh yes, everyone making minimum wage must be a useless human being because they're making minimum wage.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  2. #182
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    Re: Might be a delay getting your Big Mac today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Ahh yes, everyone making minimum wage must be a useless human being because they're making minimum wage.
    Don't put words in my mouth Mr. Pilot.

    It's common sense. If they raise the wages exponentially, they are going to require different skill sets in order to justify paying that kind of wage to people.

    You don't believe this to be the case?
    Fool me once, shame on you.
    Fool me twice....shame on me.

  3. #183
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    Re: Might be a delay getting your Big Mac today.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGirlNextDoor View Post
    Don't put words in my mouth Mr. Pilot.

    It's common sense. If they raise the wages exponentially, they are going to require different skill sets in order to justify paying that kind of wage to people.

    You don't believe this to be the case?
    No. I do not. What additional skill set do you foresee mcdonalds adding to the burger flipping?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  4. #184
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    Re: Might be a delay getting your Big Mac today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Which might be an argument if there were enough jobs around that paid better.

    But there aren't. No matter how hard anyone works, there will always be fewer jobs than there are workers. Let alone "good" jobs.

    Your fairytale universe in which everyone is paid on merit? Never existed.
    No, but that is more the rule than not - that pay is attached to "value added". If you do not have the value added of $15 an hour, then at a minimum wage of $15 an hour you are structurally unemployable.

    If I may cite a bit from Jonah Goldbergs' work that touches on the subject:


    Consider the debate over the minimum wage. The controversy centered on what to do about what Sidney Webb called the "unemployable class." It was Webb's belief, shared by many of the progressive economists affiliated with the American Economic Association, that establishing a minimum wage above the value of the unemployables' worth would lock them out of the market, accelerating their elimination as a class. This is essentially the modern conservative argument against the minimum wage, and even today, when conservatives make it, they are accused of — you guessed it — social Darwinism. But for the progressives at the dawn of the fascist moment, this was an argument for it. "Of all ways of dealing with these unfortunate parasites," Webb observed, "the most ruinous to the community is to allow them unrestrainedly to compete as wage earners."

    Ross put it succinctly: "The Coolie cannot outdo the American, but he can underlive him." Since the inferior races were content to live closer to a filthy state of nature than the Nordic man, the savages did not require a civilized wage. Hence if you raised minimum wages to a civilized level, employers wouldn't hire such miscreants in preference to "fitter" specimens, making them less likely to reproduce and, if necessary, easier targets for forced sterilization. Royal Meeker, a Princeton economist and adviser to Woodrow Wilson, explained: "Better that the state should support the inefficient wholly and prevent the multiplication of the breed than subsidize incompetence and unthrift, enabling them to bring forth more of their kind."..


    That was how we got the minimum wage. It's authors knew exactly what they were after.


    Or, if you would prefer an academic online source. Go ahead and skip on down to page 699 .
    Last edited by cpwill; 12-08-13 at 06:51 PM.

  5. #185
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    Re: Might be a delay getting your Big Mac today.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    No, but that is more the rule than not - that pay is attached to "value added". If you do not have the value added of $15 an hour, then at a minimum wage of $15 an hour you are structurally unemployable.

    If I may cite a bit from Jonah Goldbergs' work that touches on the subject:


    Consider the debate over the minimum wage. The controversy centered on what to do about what Sidney Webb called the "unemployable class." It was Webb's belief, shared by many of the progressive economists affiliated with the American Economic Association, that establishing a minimum wage above the value of the unemployables' worth would lock them out of the market, accelerating their elimination as a class. This is essentially the modern conservative argument against the minimum wage, and even today, when conservatives make it, they are accused of — you guessed it — social Darwinism. But for the progressives at the dawn of the fascist moment, this was an argument for it. "Of all ways of dealing with these unfortunate parasites," Webb observed, "the most ruinous to the community is to allow them unrestrainedly to compete as wage earners."

    Ross put it succinctly: "The Coolie cannot outdo the American, but he can underlive him." Since the inferior races were content to live closer to a filthy state of nature than the Nordic man, the savages did not require a civilized wage. Hence if you raised minimum wages to a civilized level, employers wouldn't hire such miscreants in preference to "fitter" specimens, making them less likely to reproduce and, if necessary, easier targets for forced sterilization. Royal Meeker, a Princeton economist and adviser to Woodrow Wilson, explained: "Better that the state should support the inefficient wholly and prevent the multiplication of the breed than subsidize incompetence and unthrift, enabling them to bring forth more of their kind."..


    That was how we got the minimum wage. It's authors knew exactly what they were after.


    Or, if you would prefer an academic online source. Go ahead and skip on down to page 699 .
    Since mcdonalds and walmart would still be profitable even after the pay rate increase, one can argue that the value added by those employees is demonstrably higher than what they are being paid.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  6. #186
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    Re: Might be a delay getting your Big Mac today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Since mcdonalds and walmart would still be profitable even after the pay rate increase, one can argue that the value added by those employees is demonstrably higher than what they are being paid.
    Ah, no. There is no logical connection between those two things any more than it would be to argue that McDonald's should also begin paying $4.75 for each hamburger bun it buys rather than $0.12 (or whatever)


    As for them retaining profitability - of course both companies can afford this change. It is the workers who cannot afford it. Because many of them would no longer be workers.

  7. #187
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    Re: Might be a delay getting your Big Mac today.

    Would this new $15/hr wage apply to only fast food workers? Or would it apply to everybody, such as workers in plants who process the meat, bake the buns, load the trucks, and so on?

    Then what happens to the shift managers who make $2/hr more than MW currently? Do they get a raise to $15/hr and make the same as those whom they supervise, or do they get bumped to $17/hr?
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  8. #188
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    Re: Might be a delay getting your Big Mac today.

    Can places like McD's and Walmart still make a profit if they pay $15/hr? Possibly.

    Can everybody else? Phfft! No. Do we sacrifice them and the jobs they currently provide?

    Even if they can, what incentive would investors have to keep their money in said company at a drastically reduced ROI when they could move their money elsewhere and keep the same or close ROI they're getting now?

    People who claim corporations should pay more without raising prices just because they can are demonstrating a serious naivete and lack of understanding of both business and human nature.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  9. #189
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    Re: Might be a delay getting your Big Mac today.

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Can places like McD's and Walmart still make a profit if they pay $15/hr? Possibly.

    Can everybody else? Phfft! No. Do we sacrifice them and the jobs they currently provide?
    Pshaw. It's not like small businesses are A) the ones most likely to have capital flow issues and B) also the largest creator of new jobs in our economy.


    ....oh..... wait.....

  10. #190
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    Re: Might be a delay getting your Big Mac today.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Ah, no. There is no logical connection between those two things any more than it would be to argue that McDonald's should also begin paying $4.75 for each hamburger bun it buys rather than $0.12 (or whatever)


    As for them retaining profitability - of course both companies can afford this change. It is the workers who cannot afford it. Because many of them would no longer be workers.
    How is mcdonalds supposed to sell the current number of burgers with a substantially lower workforce?

    If they could do so, they'd already have done it. Because identical sales with less workforce is profitable regardless of pay.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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