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Thread: Team Obama Changes Course, Appears to Accept China Air Defense Zone

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    Re: Team Obama Changes Course, Appears to Accept China Air Defense Zone

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    That does sound like the government is doing an Obama on the Japanese there. Mr Cave In rides again. The Japanese should establish bases on the islands together with the South Koreans.
    But if Obama really does let those two allies down, we will see two new atomically armed nations a few years down the road.
    The arms race in Asia has already began because our allies can no longer trust America.

    Obama has a track history of not just throwing long time friends under the bus like Rev. Wright and Bill Ayers but also long time ally like President Mubarak or returning the bust of Winston Churchill back to the British Embassy that use to sit in the White House, an insult to all British subjects throughout the world.

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    Re: Team Obama Changes Course, Appears to Accept China Air Defense Zone

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    WTF are you talking about, Japan threw us under the bus in WW ll.

    .
    Didn't they attack Pearl Harbor or something like that. You know, the World War 2 thing.

    You're just pulling my leg, right?

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    Re: Team Obama Changes Course, Appears to Accept China Air Defense Zone

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Didn't they attack Pearl Harbor or something like that. You know, the World War 2 thing.

    You're just pulling my leg, right?
    Japan started planning on war with the United States during the 1890's right after the Spanish American War.

    The United States drew up it's war plans against Japan in the Pacific starting in the 1890's and would adopt the final war plan known as Orange in the 1920's and it was "War Plan Orange" that was used to win the war in the Pacific during WW ll.

    War Plan Orange

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    Re: Team Obama Changes Course, Appears to Accept China Air Defense Zone

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Didn't they attack Pearl Harbor or something like that?
    What if the Japanese had not attacked Pearl Harbor?

    by Maj. Michael Snyder, US Army
    Updated 04 March 2000


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    >" The operational use of Japanese Naval Aviation was designed around the IJN's strategic and operational plan to respond to a US Navy thrust to the Philippines and
    force a decisive battle on Japanese terms.

    The IJN recognized the US Navy as its primary foe from the end of the Russo-Japanese War. From 1906, the IJN began to craft a strategic and operational plan
    for countering a US Navy thrust into the Western Pacific. Japan's naval building program was designed around the operational and tactical needs for executing the
    Plan. From what we know now, the IJN was reasonably informed about US Navy strategic concepts for a war in the Pacific. Whether they knew the details or
    not, or anything about the constant swings of power between the "thrusters", desiring an immediate all-out thrust to the Philippines at the start of a war and the
    "cautionaries", who sought a deliberate, step by step offensive to Japan is probably moot. The US navy would come west and the IJN had to be prepared to stop
    them.

    Japanese scenarios start with an attack on US possessions and forces in the western Pacific, with or without a declaration of war. They then expected the US
    Navy to mount an expedition, sooner or later, to relieve or recover the Philippines. With the acquisition of the Mandates, the IJN planned to enmesh the US Navy
    within the Mandates in a campaign of attrition by Japanese light forces. When the American force had been sufficiently weakened, the Battle Force would sail from
    the Sea of Japan and execute the "coup de grace".

    By the 1930's, the IJN envisioned its light forces as consisting of land based aviation, carrier based aviation, heavy and light cruisers, destroyers and submarines,
    along with some special systems "cooked up" especially for this campaign. Submarines and seaplanes would make the initial contact. They would shadow the US
    force and guide other submarines and the land based aviation to the target. The submarines would begin to probe the US perimeter to distract US forces from the
    oncoming bombers and torpedo planes. The submarines would also scatter mines and miniature subs in the US force's path. At night, Japanese cruisers and
    destroyers would conduct long-range torpedo attacks with "Long Lances". The Japanese built special torpedo cruisers with 40 tubes installed quick reload gear for
    torpedoes on their cruisers and destroyers and practiced hard at these tactics.

    Once the US forces had been ground down, many ships damaged, the crews exhausted, the Japanese carriers would strike. Up to 1941, the IJN planned to use
    their CVs in single carrier task forces. Thanks to Genda, the IJN developed a new doctrine and concentrated their carriers into a single strike force. They would
    have struck at dawn, 4-6 CVs, dive-bombers, torpedo bombers and fighters. The fighters would have swept the skies over the Americans, and the strike forces
    would have concentrated initially on the US CVs. Once the US naval aviation was broken and air superiority secured, denying use of the skies by the US
    observation planes and securing its use by the Japanese, the battleships would come forward, and using aerial spotting engage in a long range gunnery duel. Once
    the culminating point was reached, the Battle Force would close in on and destroy the Americans..."<

    Continue -> What if the Japanese had not attacke Pearl Harbor?

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    Re: Team Obama Changes Course, Appears to Accept China Air Defense Zone

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    Japan started planning on war with the United States during the 1890's right after the Spanish American War.

    The United States drew up it's war plans against Japan in the Pacific starting in the 1890's and would adopt the final war plan known as Orange in the 1920's and it was "War Plan Orange" that was used to win the war in the Pacific during WW ll.

    War Plan Orange
    OK. I concede. Japan did not throw us under the bus. The make a hella car and I'm glad that we're friends with them.

    So, what do you think we should do? I'm glad I don't have to make a decision but I'm interested if you have an opinion (other than Obama is awful. That has been made clear.) on dealing with those wily Chinese. Or is it too late? Have they already won?

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    Re: Team Obama Changes Course, Appears to Accept China Air Defense Zone

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    OK. I concede. Japan did not throw us under the bus. The make a hella car and I'm glad that we're friends with them.

    So, what do you think we should do? I'm glad I don't have to make a decision but I'm interested if you have an opinion (other than Obama is awful. That has been made clear.) on dealing with those wily Chinese. Or is it too late? Have they already won?
    If you took Obama out of the picture, we wouldn't have to do any thing because China wouldn't have established a air defense zone over these disputed islands. At least not today.

    Like I said before, I think China sees a weaken America under Obama and has sped up it's time line.

    A few years ago I didn't see China claiming these islands for another twenty years.

    What's it all about ?

    >"...How wise does that look, now that the Asian tiger feels strong enough to begin to push the United States out of the Western Pacific, its sovereign seas, and its sphere of influence?

    How will this all end? This week, China is sending its first probe to the moon — as Congress debates an increase in food stamps. "<

    Has the Asian Tiger Gone Tiger? - Patrick J. Buchanan - Official Website

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    Re: Team Obama Changes Course, Appears to Accept China Air Defense Zone

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    If you took Obama out of the picture, we wouldn't have to do any thing because China wouldn't have established a air defense zone over these disputed islands. At least not today.

    Like I said before, I think China sees a weaken America under Obama and has sped up it's time line.

    A few years ago I didn't see China claiming these islands for another twenty years.

    What's it all about ?

    >"...How wise does that look, now that the Asian tiger feels strong enough to begin to push the United States out of the Western Pacific, its sovereign seas, and its sphere of influence?

    How will this all end? This week, China is sending its first probe to the moon — as Congress debates an increase in food stamps. "<

    Has the Asian Tiger Gone Tiger? - Patrick J. Buchanan - Official Website
    It is kind of depressing even with your cheerful spin.

    So how might this affect us 20 years from now? Will we be making cheap toys for the Chinese version of WalMart?

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    Re: Team Obama Changes Course, Appears to Accept China Air Defense Zone

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    It is kind of depressing even with your cheerful spin.

    So how might this affect us 20 years from now? Will we be making cheap toys for the Chinese version of WalMart?
    Back in 2010 I heard a Lt. General speaking off the record at a function saying that President Obama refuses to look ten, twenty or even thirty years in to the future of what threats America might be facing. He's only concerned with the present. Then he said Obama has already made some bad decisions that will affect our military and national security twenty or thirty years down the road. America will pay by bleeding more.

    If you look back to the late 1970's you can see how Congress allowed the U.S. military become a hollow force in just a year. It took President Reagan almost eight years to repair the damage and rebuild our military.

    The current administration has caused so much damage to our military with social engineering, purging the officers corps and cuts that America may not be able to afford to repair the damage Obama has caused to our military and national defense.

    The war clouds are already forming over the Western Pacific and China is going to challenge the U.S. Navy in the South China Sea in about twenty years if they don't speed up the time table.

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    Re: Team Obama Changes Course, Appears to Accept China Air Defense Zone

    Coffee hasn't kicked in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Team Obama Changes Course, Appears to Accept China Air Defense Zone

    Quote Originally Posted by Utility Man View Post
    Meanwhile in real life.



    The Cons are more than happy to box up your jobs and ship them over to China, your "enemy".

    And the dems are just as happy to tax your jobs out of country and then tell you it was the "cons" fault. please, you guys are so dishonest with that Mitt romney/gop want to ship your jobs overseas. Money goes where it is PROFITABLE. Because business exists to make a profit for those that have a vested financial stake. When the taxation and regulation make doing business in place A far less profitable, they look for place B where money can be made.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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