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Thread: Detroit bankruptcy moves forward as judge rules city can shed debt

  1. #11
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    Re: Detroit bankruptcy moves forward as judge rules city can shed debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    This guy disagrees.

    State could have prevented Detroit bankruptcy, says professor studying struggling U.S. cities | MLive.com

    It's fun to blame everything bad on "liberals and unions," but it's bull****.
    All the guy is saying is that the state didn't ride in like the Calvary at the last second to save Detroit. GOOD I say!

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    Re: Detroit bankruptcy moves forward as judge rules city can shed debt

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    All the guy is saying is that the state didn't ride in like the Calvary at the last second to save Detroit. GOOD I say!
    Most certainly isn't "all he's saying."

    Detroit's problems stem from years of mismanagement and corruption, that much is clear. To equate that with "liberalism" is simply partisan BS.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Detroit bankruptcy moves forward as judge rules city can shed debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    I understand that; however, I would say the state government bears at least some share of responsibility for the fate of Detroit, wouldn't you?
    The unions and the Libbos have had a 50 year party...now it's time for someone to pick up the tab. I vote that the Libbos pay the bill.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Detroit bankruptcy moves forward as judge rules city can shed debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Most certainly isn't "all he's saying."

    Detroit's problems stem from years of mismanagement and corruption, that much is clear. To equate that with "liberalism" is simply partisan BS.
    Of course we can equate that with Liberalism. The Libbos have been in charge there for decades.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Detroit bankruptcy moves forward as judge rules city can shed debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    This guy
    disagrees.

    State could have prevented Detroit bankruptcy, says professor studying struggling U.S. cities | MLive.com

    It's fun to blame everything bad on "liberals and unions," but it's bull****.

    That guys an idiot. Harsh yes, but its the truth.

    Should the State be held responsible for a populace that would elect someone like Kwami Kirkpatrick to rob them blind and have " Ho Partys" at the Mayoral mansion ?

    Should the State be held responsible for a City that spent hundreds of millions more than it took in year after year after year ?

    For a City that ran up a 3.5 Billion dollar unfunded Pension fund ?

    Sounds like California, who's massive unfunded Teachers pension fund isn't counted against that States debt...for some reason.

    Friken Jerry Brown, Lol. Another dishonest Liberal who hopes to God no one digs too deep.

    But its too late for Detroit. That city is the culmination of decades of Liberal mismanagment and corruption.

    Should the State be responsible for local politicians who with a shrinking tax base decided to increase legacy cost by 46% from 2000 to 2012 ?

    Should the State be held responsible for City leaders deciding to pump out close to a billion dollars in bonuses to city workers from 1985 to 2008 ??

    Do you understand the concept of responsibillity ? Because Detroit is the eventual conclusion of a Liberals paradise and is a blinding beacon that should be sending out a clear message to the rest of America.

    That Liberal policies left unchecked result in disaster....or Detroit.

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    Re: Detroit bankruptcy moves forward as judge rules city can shed debt

    How is Seattle, Portland, New York, and San Francisco doing? What about the blue states vs red states? What about the Nordic, Scandinavian countries?

    Oh yeah that's right, we don't like those examples because they aren't in line with your Librulizm = FAILURE narrative.

    Oh well, enjoy beating your chests and congratulating yourselves on another strawman.

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    Re: Detroit bankruptcy moves forward as judge rules city can shed debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    That guys an idiot. Harsh yes, but its the truth.

    Should the State be held responsible for a populace that would elect someone like Kwami Kirkpatrick to rob them blind and have " Ho Partys" at the Mayoral mansion ?

    Should the State be held responsible for a City that spent hundreds of millions more than it took in year after year after year ?

    For a City that ran up a 3.5 Billion dollar unfunded Pension fund ?

    Sounds like California, who's massive unfunded Teachers pension fund isn't counted against that States debt...for some reason.

    Friken Jerry Brown, Lol. Another dishonest Liberal who hopes to God no one digs too deep.

    But its too late for Detroit. That city is the culmination of decades of Liberal mismanagment and corruption.

    Should the State be responsible for local politicians who with a shrinking tax base decided to increase legacy cost by 46% from 2000 to 2012 ?

    Should the State be held responsible for City leaders deciding to pump out close to a billion dollars in bonuses to city workers from 1985 to 2008 ??

    Do you understand the concept of responsibillity ? Because Detroit is the eventual conclusion of a Liberals paradise and is a blinding beacon that should be sending out a clear message to the rest of America.

    That Liberal policies left unchecked result in disaster....or Detroit.
    At what point did I say Kilpatrick's shenanigans were the state's responsibility? Oh, that's right, I didn't. Nice strawman. If you think that "ho parties" are what bankrupted Detroit, however, you're out of your mind.

    Obviously, the city was ****ed up. Now, if you want to claim that's "liberalism" as opposed to corruption and sheer incompetence (or, better yet, if you try to equate corruption and incompetence with "liberalism," or rather your asinine caricature of it), then be my guest ... all that does is illustrate that you have no interest in a serious discussion and would rather just play childish partisan games, and as far as I'm concerned you can do that by yourself in the corner.

    The guy in the article I cited also said that state money that was earmarked for Detroit (as every state government has for almost every city) was instead being used to plug gaps in the state budget. I see that point was ignored just so you could rant against "liberals," which is pretty much all you do.

    It's hard to have any serious substantive discussion when all you do is rant about how much you hate this caricature of liberalism you've created in your head.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Detroit bankruptcy moves forward as judge rules city can shed debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    How is Seattle, Portland, New York, and San Francisco doing? What about the blue states vs red states? What about the Nordic, Scandinavian countries?

    Oh yeah that's right, we don't like those examples because they aren't in line with your Librulizm = FAILURE narrative.

    Oh well, enjoy beating your chests and congratulating yourselves on another strawman.
    The interesting thing is, it seems to me that a lot of conservatives are THRILLED that Detroit went bankrupt. Because it was run by a Democrat (who was also a corrupt asshole), it allows them to blame Detroit's problems on LIBERALISM, rather than the fact that the city government was a bunch of corrupt assholes. See, in Conservaland, liberalism and corruption are synonyms, just like liberalism and any other bad thing they can think of.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Detroit bankruptcy moves forward as judge rules city can shed debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    How is Seattle, Portland, New York, and San
    Francisco doing? What about the blue states vs red states? What about the Nordic, Scandinavian countries?

    Oh yeah that's right, we don't like those examples because they aren't in line with your Librulizm = FAILURE narrative.

    Oh well, enjoy beating your chests and congratulating yourselves on another strawman.

    LOL !!

    No, the consequence of full blown Liberalism and corruption. Apparently they go hand in hand.

    Funny you brought up California. Jerry Brown likes to claim a projected balanced budget, but ignores a unfunded pension fund that by Conservative estimates is unfunded by up to 80 billion dollars.

    Just because they've hid their debt doesn't mean they're not far behind Detroit, especially when Californians elect someone like Jerry Brown.

    Liberals and Democrats lie, so post your examples of a working Liberal paradise, and hope no one digs in to the reality that most liberal locals are either already too far gone to save or quickly on the way to insolvency.

    You CANT build an economy on a public sector while you attack your private sector and expect success.

    Look at Greece, its exactly what caused them to go bankrupt.

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    Re: Detroit bankruptcy moves forward as judge rules city can shed debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Damn, pension funds are short 3.5 Billion.

    Some of the reasons that caused this, other than corrupt and criminal politicians ripping the city off and having " Hoe-Party's " in the Mayoral Mansion...

    Taxing higher and higher: City leaders tried repeatedly to reverse sliding revenue through new taxes. Despite a new income tax in 1962, a new utility tax in 1971 and a new casino revenue tax in 1999 — not to mention several tax increases along the way — revenue in today’s dollars fell 40% from 1962 to 2012. Higher taxes helped drive residents to the suburbs and drove away business. Today, Detroit still doesn’t take in as much tax revenue as it did just from property taxes in 1963.

    Downsizing — too little, too late: The total assessed value of Detroit property — a good gauge of the city’s tax base and its ability to pay bills — fell a staggering 77% over the past 50 years in today’s dollars. But through 2004, the city cut only 28% of its workers, even though the money to pay them was drying up. Not until the last decade did Detroit, in desperation, cut half its workforce. The city also failed to take advantage of efficiencies, such as new technology, that enabled enormous productivity gains in the broader economy.

    Skyrocketing employee benefits: City leaders allowed legacy costs — the tab for retiree pensions and health care — to spiral out of control even as the State of Michigan and private industry were pushing workers into less costly plans. That placed major stress on the budget and diverted money from services such as streetlights and public safety. Detroit’s spending on retiree health care soared 46% from 2000 to 2012, even as its general fund revenue fell 20%.

    Gifting a billion in bonuses: Pension officials handed out about $1 billion in bonuses from the city’s two pension funds to retirees and active city workers from 1985 to 2008. That money — mostly in the form of so-called 13th checks — could have shored up the funds and possibly prevented the city from filing for bankruptcy. If that money had been saved, it would have been worth more than $1.9 billion today to the city and pension funds, by one expert’s estimate

    Borrowing more and more: Detroit went on a binge starting around 2000 to close budget holes and to build infrastructure, more than doubling debt to $8 billion by 2012. Under Archer, Detroit sold water and sewer bonds. Kilpatrick, who took office in 2002, used borrowing as his stock answer to budget issues, and Bing borrowed more than $250 million.

    Adding the last straw — Kilpatrick’s gamble: He’s best known around the globe for a sex and perjury scandal that sent him to jail and massive corruption that threatens to send him to prison next month for more than 20 years. The corruption cases further eroded Detroit’s image and distracted the city from its fiscal storm. But perhaps the greatest damage Kilpatrick did to the city’s long-term stability was with Wall Street’s help when he borrowed $1.44 billion in a flashy high-finance deal to restructure pension fund debt. That deal, which could cost $2.8 billion over the next 22 years, now represents nearly one-fifth of the city’s debt.


    How Detroit went broke: The answers may surprise you — and don't blame Coleman Young | Detroit Free Press | freep.com
    Too many promises made to too many people, and not enough money to keep those promises. How many more will there be? Sad...

    Greetings, Fenton.

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