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Costco labels bibles "Fiction"

How Costco labels the bible is to me irrelevant - the label doesn't change the contents, the meaning nor the lessons of the bible. If such a label is seen as a statement by Costco on the contents of the bible, those who feel strongly and disapprove should find a new large box store to shop and there are a few. Costco claims it was "human error" - ok, errors happen. This is NOT persecution or oppression of religion by Costco and labeling this with some overt outrage diminishes ACTUAL persecution and oppression of the Christian religion when it happens.
 
TheNextEra said:
I was Roman Catholic growing up until I realized that there is no way for the bible to be taken as factual. And if you cannot take the bible factually, then there can be other parts in there that are also not to be taken factually. Either the bible is fact or fiction. Take your pick.
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Cannot some be fact and other parts be fiction? Parts, as we well know, have some obscure authors who can rightfully be ignored, Other teachings, particularly in the NT, have revolutionized the world, and are still doing so.

As human beings we have to discern what might be a good thing and others which might be nonsense. That is why we are blessed with free will.
 
TheNextEra said:
I'm sorry, but that is simply silly. Christians seem to have NO problem intepreting Muslim scriptures and beliefs. Why is it Christians get upset when the same thing is done to them?

Basically you are making the case for Christianity (and frankly many other religions like Islam, Judaism, etc) being a made up religion.
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Muslims would be correct to disregard a Christian critic's comments on the Koran.
 
Grant said:
Everyone has the right to study and criticize and religion while others have the right to respond. (With the possible exception of Islam).

How do you define a 'made-up' religion?
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I think it's quite clear what I mean by made-up. Manmade, as in a means to control people through the idea of "If you don't follow our religion and do what we tell you, you will go to hell".
 
Cephus said:
The majority can, and often is, wrong. You're just engaging in argumentum ad populum. Try again.
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When that's the only relevant standard then I win. If your standard is "people who think like me are right" then you win.

The norm is usually ... er ... normal.
 
Grant said:
Cannot some be fact and other parts be fiction? Parts, as we well know, have some obscure authors who can rightfully be ignored, Other teachings, particularly in the NT, have revolutionized the world, and are still doing so.

As human beings we have to discern what might be a good thing and others which might be nonsense. That is why we are blessed with free will.
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Yes, some can be fact and some can be fiction, however, that would label the book fiction then.

If I write about Nazis with some factual things and then throw in space aliens, it is considered fiction.

So then you agree the bible is fiction.
 
TheNextEra said:
Yes, some can be fact and some can be fiction, however, that would label the book fiction then.

If I write about Nazis with some factual things and then throw in space aliens, it is considered fiction.

So then you agree the bible is fiction.
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Yeah, the Roman empire existed, but we generally accept that the movie Gladiator was a work of fiction.
 
LowDown said:
Muslims would be correct to disregard a Christian critic's comments on the Koran.
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Yet you claimed it would be disrespectful for non-Christians to try and interpret Christian scriptures. So you agree its disrespectful for Christians to try and intepret Islam scriptures then right?
 
Cardinal said:
Yeah, the Roman empire existed, but we generally accept that the events in Gladiator are fiction.
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I agree, and the movie Gladiator is considered fiction. So the bible is fiction then.
 
Grant said:
Given their history that would make some sense, but trusting them less than other groups is quite different from getting 'the short end of the stick".
No, but I was pretty big in school.But Muslims are targeting and murdering non Muslims,. It's happening all over the world.
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Except that the distrust is completely unwarranted and leads a lot of people into believing they are free to be rude towards Arabs. I don't want to be blamed for murdering people anymore than some kid with Arabic heritage, who also was born in America. None of that has even the slightest to do with me or him.

How about this: Japanese Americans during WWII were forced into prison camps, even though they had nothing to do with the war. Additionally anyone even remotely Asian looking was routinely distrusted and viewed with suspicion. Asians had to resort to wearing signs on their clothing declaring their heritage in order to stop being discriminated against.

Was that fair to distrust and be rude towards the Japanese?
 
Cardinal said:
Yeah, the Roman empire existed, but we generally accept that the events in Gladiator are fiction.
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Was the film "Gladiator" categorized as a documentary? See the issue is about the label... if people don't label things correctly noses get out of joint. If the film industry categorized "Christmas Vacation" with Chevy Chase and the gang a documentary, there would be a bit of a kerfluffle.
 
TheNextEra said:
I think it's quite clear what I mean by made-up. Manmade, as in a means to control people through the idea of "If you don't follow our religion and do what we tell you, you will go to hell".
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An example always helps and yes, that is one of the earlier teachings, or the equivalent, of most religions.

Every group of people, or tribe, has their religion and it is necessary to retain order in their communities. There had to be the idea of fear and reward in any culture which didn't have proper policing as we know it. How else could people control antisocial behavior apart from religion?

I have spent a great deal of time in Latin America where the police, in many cases, were poorly trained, lazy, and incompetent. The only reasons stopping people from killing each other was the fear of God. Now we have the fear of DNA which may, or may not, be more effective.
 
TheNextEra said:
Yes, some can be fact and some can be fiction, however, that would label the book fiction then.

If I write about Nazis with some factual things and then throw in space aliens, it is considered fiction.

So then you agree the bible is fiction.
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I don't doubt that much of the Bible is fiction. But in your example parts would be true and other parts would be false. The part doesn't necessarily make the whole.
 
Redress said:
And no one said they where not free to believe anything they want. That does not make a book that is at odds with historical records, archeological findings, and basic science factual. Trying to suggest that the bible is the authority in those areas as you did is just silly.
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Please don't put words in my mouth. I said that the Bible is the authoritative history for Christians, or words to that effect. It is interpreted in light of experience, tradition, prayer, and what we know about other matters such as archeology, geology, etc. Again, where it appears to contradict what is known from science about the physical world it should probably not be interpreted literally, that's how most mainstream Christians see it. There is much else that is disregarded as not applying to the modern day. How that all shakes out is for believers to decide.
 
Ockham said:
If that's what you want to believe, fine.
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It's not what I believe it's fact. If the bible isn't literal, than that means there are parts in there that are manmade or at the very least have manmade bias. Hence, why I call every organized religion manmade.

I don't use manmade as an insult, I use it as an accurate description. It doesn't make it wrong to follow a manmade religion, following it is simply an act of faith. However, where I have a hard time with religion is where people say we HAVE to have this law BECAUSE the bible says so or the Koran says so, etc.

My faith is also considered manmade as I believe it is the deeds of the person and the path a person takes, not a particular religion. What do I have to back up my faith? Nothing, however, I don't want to make laws to get you to follow my faith.
 
LowDown said:
Please don't put words in my mouth. I said that the Bible is the authoritative history for Christians, or words to that effect. It is interpreted in light of experience, tradition, prayer, and what we know about other matters such as archeology, geology, etc. Again, where it appears to contradict what is known from science about the physical world it should probably not be interpreted literally, that's how most mainstream Christians see it. There is much else that is disregarded as not applying to the modern day. How that all shakes out is for believers to decide.
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Which does not make it an actual history.
 
Grant said:
I don't doubt that much of the Bible is fiction. But in your example parts would be true and other parts would be false. The part doesn't necessarily make the whole.
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It still makes it fiction. I'm not sure why people would take offense to a bible being called fiction. It cannot be proven to be 100% factual, therefore the label of fiction is correct.

I mean if you label the Koran as non-fiction, the bible as non-fiction, and wiccan as non-fiction there is obviously something that is fictional.

Its the Christians that are having a hard time with the bible being labeled as fiction and I'm pretty sure we would have riots in the streets in Muslim countries if the Koran was labeled fiction too. However, that doesn't make it any less so.
 
Grant said:
That's really putting 2 + 2 together!
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Tell that to those Christians who think the bible is 100% fact and who want to have laws forcing everyone to abide by their scripture. The same goes for Muslims as well.
 
Ockham said:
Was the film "Gladiator" categorized as a documentary? See the issue is about the label... if people don't label things correctly noses get out of joint. If the film industry categorized "Christmas Vacation" with Chevy Chase and the gang a documentary, there would be a bit of a kerfluffle.
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If Gladiator had been listed under documentary that would have been awesome, but yeah, still inaccurate.
 
brothern said:
Muslims are minorities in first world countries and often get the short end of the stick. If I were a secular atheist in the Islamic world, I'd be the first to defend Christians.


For your viewing pleasure: http://jerichobrisance.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/new-testament-timeline-jerichobrisance1.png
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Gave me a thought.
Where do they place the Talmud or the Quran in their bookshelves?


OK I just checked costco.com and they don't have a book department so is this a real issue?
 
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Do most Christians believe that the Bible is a literal account of the times?

I am not saying placing a "fiction" sticker was appropriate...but it is not necessarily non-fiction, either.
 
TheNextEra said:
It's not what I believe it's fact.
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The bible is filled with lessons and allegory. Historically speaking, the population were illiterate and could not understand expanded concepts. There are very few 100% literal things especially from 2000+ years ago. What you believe by definition is a "belief" - you choose to call it a fact because it's what you believe - hence your opinion. Know that there are differences in beliefs as well as degrees of belief. Don't lump everyone into one category thinking 100% of the bible is fact. Yet historically, many things that occurred in the bible are historically supported.

TheNextEra said:
If the bible isn't literal, than that means there are parts in there that are manmade or at the very least have manmade bias. Hence, why I call every organized religion manmade.
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Yes the 100% or nothing argument - it's been around for as long as religion.

TheNextEra said:
I don't use manmade as an insult, I use it as an accurate description. It doesn't make it wrong to follow a manmade religion, following it is simply an act of faith. However, where I have a hard time with religion is where people say we HAVE to have this law BECAUSE the bible says so or the Koran says so, etc.
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It's accurate to you. Simply understand not everyone thinks or believes as you do.

TheNextEra said:
My faith is also considered manmade as I believe it is the deeds of the person and the path a person takes, not a particular religion. What do I have to back up my faith? Nothing, however, I don't want to make laws to get you to follow my faith.
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What's your faith based on? Fact is most morals be it deeds or a distinction between right and wrong have some basis in a religion of some type. Whether you want to accept that or not... meh. Not my problem.
 
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