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Thread: Teens in Asia dominate global test; US stagnant

  1. #21
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    Re: Teens in Asia dominate global test; US stagnant

    Quote Originally Posted by trfjr View Post
    .

    Teens in Asia dominate global test; US stagnant

    And we spend more per child on education then any other country. in 2011 we spent $7,743 per child two times as much as the Asian countries do
    U.S. Education Spending & Student Performance vs. The World Infographic | MAT@USC | USC Rossier Online

    so I don't want to hear any solutions that is about wasting more money on a broken system

    First and for most we need to get rid of the teachers unions they are more concerned about stuffing their pockets then educating our children

    second we need to pay teachers based on performance and not on tenure like they do every where else in the private sector

    third we need to implement school choice let the schools compete for students and when there is competition there is improvement
    Actually....teachers unions exist in countries that do better (S Korea, Finland, Japan etc). In fact their unions have more power.....

    They are also generally centralized federal systems ran by the national government not a decentralized system that hands out vouchers.

    So you basically have somehow looked at that list and decided that in order to compete with countries that out perform us we need to do the complete opposite of what their doing.

    I do take issue with some of the results (as mentioned in the article). For one China is a horrible country to even have on that list. It's by no means insight into how the nation performs as a whole. The US scores are an average. There's no doubt that better US schools in wealthier neighborhoods (yes poverty is also a problem in the US and not a large problem in Finland/Japan etc) the US is very competitive.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Teens in Asia dominate global test; US stagnant

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    12 hours a day, six days a week, of schooling, seems so unfair to those children, who never get a chance to be children! I don't blame the parents, who are aware of the intense competition their child faces, but surely something better could be tried. Ironically, I just read an article the other day where women are turning down marriage proposals simply because the man does not make enough money, and it's an accepted practice! Apparently, even their adulthood is affected. I don't recall if this was in South Korea, though..

    Greetings, ocean515.
    My son shares your sentiment. After a year teaching in a private school in Changwon, South Korea, he was ready to get back to Southern California.

    Let me see if I can put this in a few words. My son once asked his class to write down what they did with their friends in their free time. After several minutes of explanation, and lots of questions, the response was something like, "what's free time?". It wasn't a complaint, it was complete confusion over the concept of "free time".

    I'm not sure what the balance is. I don't think it's the extreme as seen in many parts of industrialized Asia.

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    Re: Teens in Asia dominate global test; US stagnant

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    So, if we pick the schools and filter out the underachievers, like China does, we will be #1!
    Rarely does anyone mention the changing demographics in America.

    With the IRA of 1965 America shut off immigration of skilled and educated immigrants and now it's mostly third world uneducated and unskilled immigrants. With them they brought their culture and that culture is looking down upon education, that getting an education isn't that important.

    It's a cultural thing. And starting in the mid 1970's immigrants were told not to assimilate in the name of PC. They were told to hold unto their culture, language and customs.

    Now if you look at Chinese immigrants, education is one of the most important things in their culture and their children do above average in school in America. Where as Hispanic immigrants children don't succeed in school and have close to a 50% dropout rate in high school.

    By 2040 America's dropout rate will be 40 % or even higher.

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    Re: Teens in Asia dominate global test; US stagnant

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    My son shares your sentiment. After a year teaching in a private school in Changwon, South Korea, he was ready to get back to Southern California.

    Let me see if I can put this in a few words. My son once asked his class to write down what they did with their friends in their free time. After several minutes of explanation, and lots of questions, the response was something like, "what's free time?". It wasn't a complaint, it was complete confusion over the concept of "free time".

    I'm not sure what the balance is. I don't think it's the extreme as seen in many parts of industrialized Asia.
    but if you look at the article it is more then just the Asian countries that are kicking our ass Poland is kicking our ass

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    Re: Teens in Asia dominate global test; US stagnant

    Quote Originally Posted by trfjr View Post
    .

    Teens in Asia dominate global test; US stagnant

    And we spend more per child on education then any other country. in 2011 we spent $7,743 per child two times as much as the Asian countries do
    U.S. Education Spending & Student Performance vs. The World Infographic | MAT@USC | USC Rossier Online

    so I don't want to hear any solutions that is about wasting more money on a broken system

    First and for most we need to get rid of the teachers unions they are more concerned about stuffing their pockets then educating our children

    second we need to pay teachers based on performance and not on tenure like they do every where else in the private sector

    third we need to implement school choice let the schools compete for students and when there is competition there is improvement
    First, we need to have a single language education system... like they do.
    Second, when they have the divorce rates that we do... then we will see better results.
    Third, we need to get rid of gangs, thugs and cure cullying... like they don't have.
    Fourth, we need to stop illegal immigration... like they do.
    Fifth, we need families to prioritize education as a value over the mass media, sports and video games,.. like they do.
    I can go on and on...
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    Re: Teens in Asia dominate global test; US stagnant

    Quote Originally Posted by trfjr View Post
    but if you look at the article it is more then just the Asian countries that are kicking our ass Poland is kicking our ass
    Overall... not with those that value education in the USA. In that category we are at the very top.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Teens in Asia dominate global test; US stagnant

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    First, we need to have a single language education system... like they do.
    Second, when they have the divorce rates that we do... then we will see better results.
    Third, we need to get rid of gangs, thugs and cure cullying... like they don't have.
    Fourth, we need to stop illegal immigration... like they do.
    Fifth, we need families to prioritize education as a value over the mass media, sports and video games,.. like they do.
    I can go on and on...
    so for other words get rid of liberal progressive policies and reinstate conservative family values back into the culture

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    Re: Teens in Asia dominate global test; US stagnant

    Quote Originally Posted by trfjr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    So, if we pick the schools and filter out the underachievers, like China does, we will be #1!

    so what excuses are you going to give for the other 20 plus countries ahead of us
    If you took Massachusetts and put it into the PISA rankings (just as Shanghai and Hong Kong are selected from all of China) you would find Massachusetts ranks 6th overall in the world.

    The US remains average or below average, below countries such as Russia and Spain, but individual states are high performers.

    If Massachusetts was ranked as a country it would be sixth best in the world, ahead of any European country
    . Link
    I'm pretty certain unions, tenure etc are fairy similar in this state to most other US states so other causes will be a factor for the US poor performance overall.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    First, we need to have a single language education system... like they do.
    Second, when they have the divorce rates that we do... then we will see better results.
    Third, we need to get rid of gangs, thugs and cure cullying... like they don't have.
    Fourth, we need to stop illegal immigration... like they do.
    Fifth, we need families to prioritize education as a value over the mass media, sports and video games,.. like they do.
    I can go on and on...
    Where does high youth suicide rate fit in on this wishlist to be like Asian countries?
    Last edited by Infinite Chaos; 12-03-13 at 06:10 PM.

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    Re: Teens in Asia dominate global test; US stagnant

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    This discipline problem is not limited to just a few schools. It only takes 3 or 4 morons to disrupt the entire class and with our "rights" it is difficult to expel anyone, short of a felony. If a school district naturally lacks these morons then they are often bused in, making it even harder to "target" them. We must maintain "diversity" at all costs.

    Student diversity through busing: Not as easy as it sounded - CSMonitor.com
    The only escape is AP classes, which I force (they'd do it anyway) my kids to take. That gets rid of much of the unwashed riff raff because you've effectively created a school within a school. (Soon, the Obamas of the world will outlaw such classes as racist and discriminatory.)

    And you're right, this is even in a well-heeled suburban burg.

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    Re: Teens in Asia dominate global test; US stagnant

    Quote Originally Posted by trfjr View Post
    so for other words get rid of liberal progressive policies and reinstate conservative family values back into the culture
    I don't think that there is anything wrong with liberal progressive policies... which ones hurt individuals anyway? But yes, the break up of the traditional family unit has hurt society. The biggest thing to hurt children is discipline. Parents are told not to spank but don't know how to do the time out method properly because it is a skill, not something that you can just do. Gangs. Thugs. Hip hop culture. Kids suing parents. It is just a mess and comparing our education system to others is unfair. Our top kids are still top or more so, on the world stage.

    New Zealand has a better ranked system than the USA. Society is pretty even in that most are European descendants. The Maori would be like our Mexicans, except a lot less of them. When Kiwis go to the USA for exchange they realize that they are, in general, behind. When American students go to New Zealand they realize that they are 1-2 years ahead of Kiwis even though the US system is supposedly behind. Why? Because gangs, non-English speakers, etc. are what is ruining the education system in the US... not the teachers. Not the curriculum.

    When I taught in California I had two ELL Classes. English Language Learners. Nothing was learned in that class all year. I was teaching how to say door, or teacher. basic words. Students in that class didn't speak English and I spoke limited Spanish but I had an Israeli, a Pakastani (that sure made lessons fun!) a bunch of south of the border kids speaking various dialects of broken Spanish, three Vietnamese and a kid from Poland. They all took the same tests that the rest of the kids took but they all failed miserably and that brings down the over all score for the school, district, state and nation. Multiply this to every school and you see a massive problem. Then throw in gangs, ADD, social media bullying, etc and the political correctness bull **** (that is liberalism) that says all kids can be university students and all the other crap and we have problems that no teacher can ever hope to solve.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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