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Thread: Teens in Asia dominate global test; US stagnant

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    Re: Teens in Asia dominate global test; US stagnant

    Quote Originally Posted by hjl1991 View Post
    If we can provide it, why wouldn't we? We produce something like 2-3 times the amount of food consumed in this country, yet not everyone can afford to buy it?

    I should rephrase what I said. I don't want to use the word deserve, because no one deserves anything, but I'd call upon the have's to have a heart and help the have not's to fulfill the dreams our fathers lived and died for over the last several thousand years. Our country desperately needs morals.
    Give your cell phone to the poor, I will get you a pre-paid phone.

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    Re: Teens in Asia dominate global test; US stagnant

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    We're at an interesting impasse then...

    Your source states (if I read you right) that the US has a higher suicide rate but my source (the OECD) has figures saying the exact opposite. South Korea, Japan, Finland - all nations who have scored most highly in the PISA tests all have horrendous youth suicide rates.
    The one that surprises me most if Finland because the Scandinavian approach to school is the exact opposite to all other "sausage factory" approaches and kids have an extended childhood and start education at 8.

    Anyhow - are our statistics the same or is this the old adage about "lies, damned lies and statistics?"
    Not sure but I have always said that all these stats about "good education systems" are bunk. Anybody who wants to learn and values education will learn and succeed. There is no system that is really better than another.
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    Re: Teens in Asia dominate global test; US stagnant

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    You hit on a key point. With a much less diverse population in multiple categories, education becomes much easier to plan and execute for a school system and its faculty.

    Multiculturalism is a very hot topic in Europe because the desired effect has not been realized. Quite the opposite, in fact. France is losing its identity entirely, as is England and other places.

    My two oldest went through the public system and have done very well. However, my youngest is going the private route because the game is changing too fast.
    I see those that attack the US system as having an agenda... especially if they are attacking teachers.
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    Re: Teens in Asia dominate global test; US stagnant

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Apparently you think that Jon Stewart and Colbert are anything but entertainers. I dont get my news or base any opinion on the Colbert report. Ive got to say, from life experience those that do are a bit behind the curve.

    Employers are required to be fair-in that they must comply with laws and hold people accountable for their skills and performance-but an unskilled worker is earning what he is worth-minimum wage. Charity? Now you are being silly, its not a manager of a branch of a business to be "charitable" by whatever arbitrary and emotion fueled definition you might offer. People aren't earning minimum wage because they are being screwed over by their manager. The turnover at say McDonalds is over 100% a year-because they quickly learn the skills to transition into another job. Its not because the managers are evil at mcdonalds.

    Besides-its not that managers job to GIVE his paycheck to others as charity.

    How much do you earn? Why aren't you giving it to the local homeless?
    My point was that Stewart and Colbert are masters of satire, and use jokes exactly like you did. I didn't say I look up to them, but that satire is a poor form of logic to ever use.

    The turnover at McDonalds is not just due to transitioning to another job, it's also just plain hard. I've worked there, and I've gotta say it was the hardest job that I ever had.

    I earn a little over 40k a year right now in a low income part of the state. I do a job that takes less skill than being a cook but gets paid more because of unions over the last century. I'm a railroader.

    I give money to my church every week. I give money to my cousin who is struggling right now because he can't find a better job. I give gifts to my family on every holiday, frequently give money to organizations like the salvation army (that I benefited from when I was a child with a single mom after my dad died), always tip well at restaurants, and in general I cover the tab for things like getting coffee with my friends and other such things. Why? Because I give a damn. Ultimately, my donations and charitable efforts affect not just those immediately around me, but also the homeless that come to my church for meals. I pay taxes that cover programs like WIC and SNAP to help out. Don't single me out on this, I'd gladly pay my employees more than minimum wage. I'd certainly make sure I never made more than double the lowest entry position.

    But now that I answered your question, how about you tell me how much you earn and where your charities go?

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    Re: Teens in Asia dominate global test; US stagnant

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Give your cell phone to the poor, I will get you a pre-paid phone.
    I have a dumb phone that costs $30/month. It was $12, but I need more minutes because I am away from home as much as I am. I am on literally the cheapest plan I can find with the cheapest phone I need to cover my basic family social needs.

    That's just a terrible argument to make.

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    Re: Teens in Asia dominate global test; US stagnant

    Quote Originally Posted by hjl1991 View Post
    My point was that Stewart and Colbert are masters of satire, and use jokes exactly like you did. I didn't say I look up to them, but that satire is a poor form of logic to ever use.

    The turnover at McDonalds is not just due to transitioning to another job, it's also just plain hard. I've worked there, and I've gotta say it was the hardest job that I ever had.

    I earn a little over 40k a year right now in a low income part of the state. I do a job that takes less skill than being a cook but gets paid more because of unions over the last century. I'm a railroader.

    I give money to my church every week. I give money to my cousin who is struggling right now because he can't find a better job. I give gifts to my family on every holiday, frequently give money to organizations like the salvation army (that I benefited from when I was a child with a single mom after my dad died), always tip well at restaurants, and in general I cover the tab for things like getting coffee with my friends and other such things. Why? Because I give a damn. Ultimately, my donations and charitable efforts affect not just those immediately around me, but also the homeless that come to my church for meals. I pay taxes that cover programs like WIC and SNAP to help out. Don't single me out on this, I'd gladly pay my employees more than minimum wage. I'd certainly make sure I never made more than double the lowest entry position.

    But now that I answered your question, how about you tell me how much you earn and where your charities go?
    I think you sound like a hard working guy, learn some skills and you can go even further. How much you and any employees you might someday have depends on WHAT YOU ARE WORTH TO THE COMPANY. Its NOT a moral statement, you seem to believe it is. Id like to see you start thinking more with your brain instead of your heart, because the solution is NOT emotional or moral.

    I make 6 figures but only the last year or so. I rarely donate, I work with Flying Doctors, in southern california and northern Mexico, treating sick Mexicans.
    http://www.flyingdocs.org/

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    Re: Teens in Asia dominate global test; US stagnant

    Quote Originally Posted by hjl1991 View Post

    That's just a terrible argument to make.
    So is wealth distribution to unskilled labor.

    Watch this for an example of using your head over heart.

    Why I am against almost ALL aid to africa.

    http://fora.tv/2009/06/05/Uncommon_K...e_Dambisa_Moyo
    Last edited by US Conservative; 12-08-13 at 08:03 PM.

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    Re: Teens in Asia dominate global test; US stagnant

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    I think you sound like a hard working guy, learn some skills and you can go even further. How much you and any employees you might someday have depends on WHAT YOU ARE WORTH TO THE COMPANY. Its NOT a moral statement, you seem to believe it is. Id like to see you start thinking more with your brain instead of your heart, because the solution is NOT emotional or moral.

    I make 6 figures but only the last year or so. I rarely donate, I work with Flying Doctors, in southern california and northern Mexico, treating sick Mexicans.
    Welcome to Los Médicos Voladores
    Who decides what YOU are worth, though? If I'm the boss, I decide what I'm worth at the expense of my other workers. So, for example when I was a waiter/server at a restaurant, I was making 2.83/hr and 7.25 when I cooked one day a week. The turnover rate was high, and in a matter of a year I was one of the most seasoned veterans on staff and on management track. The problem was that managers only made 8.50 an hour. The entire business was family run at the top level, though, where the lowest paid salary was over $100k. This family did very little to add to the company, they did no ground level work, and ultimately were just leeching off of the workers and store managers.

    Then I found a job at Denny's Beer Barrel & Pub, and I started out making 8.50 an hour plus about an additional 2.50 an hour in tips as a line cook (11/hour). Within a month, I was up to 12 an hour, and six months later was at 12.75/hour. That translates to something around 27k a year, which is honestly a living wage where I live. The thing was, my manager made 16 an hour, and my owners (Father and son), only made about 50k each per year. These guys built a hugely successful restaurant on the principle that giving a damn about your employees would make a better restaurant, and it translated in having workers stay there for years and years. Ultimately, I had to leave when I found out my wife was pregnant and completely lucked into getting the job as a conductor at the railroad.

    Now, who was worth more, the cook at the first restaurant or Denny's? The truth is, both companies saw similar revenues based on the number of employees they had. But, one company valued the owners more and the second less so. The difference was who cared more, and having a heart led to a much better restaurant that is one of the most famous private restaurants in the country and arguably the best burger joint on the east coast.

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    Re: Teens in Asia dominate global test; US stagnant

    Quote Originally Posted by hjl1991 View Post
    Who decides what YOU are worth, though? If I'm the boss, I decide what I'm worth at the expense of my other workers. So, for example when I was a waiter/server at a restaurant, I was making 2.83/hr and 7.25 when I cooked one day a week. The turnover rate was high, and in a matter of a year I was one of the most seasoned veterans on staff and on management track. The problem was that managers only made 8.50 an hour. The entire business was family run at the top level, though, where the lowest paid salary was over $100k. This family did very little to add to the company, they did no ground level work, and ultimately were just leeching off of the workers and store managers.

    Then I found a job at Denny's Beer Barrel & Pub, and I started out making 8.50 an hour plus about an additional 2.50 an hour in tips as a line cook (11/hour). Within a month, I was up to 12 an hour, and six months later was at 12.75/hour. That translates to something around 27k a year, which is honestly a living wage where I live. The thing was, my manager made 16 an hour, and my owners (Father and son), only made about 50k each per year. These guys built a hugely successful restaurant on the principle that giving a damn about your employees would make a better restaurant, and it translated in having workers stay there for years and years. Ultimately, I had to leave when I found out my wife was pregnant and completely lucked into getting the job as a conductor at the railroad.

    Now, who was worth more, the cook at the first restaurant or Denny's? The truth is, both companies saw similar revenues based on the number of employees they had. But, one company valued the owners more and the second less so. The difference was who cared more, and having a heart led to a much better restaurant that is one of the most famous private restaurants in the country and arguably the best burger joint on the east coast.
    Actually if you are the boss you decide how the limited resources of the company should be spent. You have quite a bit of bias showing through.

    I statistically make my boss over 100K a year. I make just over that, and I cost another 25K or so in education, expenses etc. But after those expenses and my salary, I still make money. Im worth it to the company, if I was not, I would not be making what I do.

    Have you considered taking a business class? Serious question, you sound like a nice guy and might go far.

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    Re: Teens in Asia dominate global test; US stagnant

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Actually if you are the boss you decide how the limited resources of the company should be spent. You have quite a bit of bias showing through.

    I statistically make my boss over 100K a year. I make just over that, and I cost another 25K or so in education, expenses etc. But after those expenses and my salary, I still make money. Im worth it to the company, if I was not, I would not be making what I do.

    Have you considered taking a business class? Serious question, you sound like a nice guy and might go far.
    You are right, and thus an employees wages are based on the allocation of limited resources, which at that point morals of an employer determine a lot.

    My wife is in accounting school currently. After that, I plan on going back to school, but obviously my situation has constraints. I have taken a business class as well as a business ethics class and an accounting class. I have 54 credits through Penn State, but after switching my major a bunch and going through a pot smoking phase, I dropped out (my GPA remains around a 3.3). But, just like anything else, I have to make a long series of good choices if I ever wish to get back into school and further, I have to make far better choices than I previously did if I ever get back into school.

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