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Thread: U.S. justices decline to hear another Obamacare challenge

  1. #71
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    Re: U.S. justices decline to hear another Obamacare challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    No, I want to accurately and factually point out that the VAST MAJORITY of the PPACA is wholey different than what Heritage suggested.

    There was one significant similarlity in regards to a mandate. Now you're correct, I could quibble about the differences between their mandate and the ACA's mandate....but I specifically stated in multiple posts that even ignoring those quibbles and accepting the mandate being the same in both....they're still MASSIVELY different in their entirety. And Dana did not state anything about the "mandate", he stated The law which is all encompassing.

    Quibbling about the mandates being different is like Vanilla Ice trying to say he put an extra "Da" in the hook in "Ice Ice Baby"

    Stating that the ACA as an entire law was "conceived" by the Heritage Foundation is like suggesting David Bowie created "Ice Ice Baby" (Word to your mother).

    Again, you keep wanting to create a move the goal posts because you're pissy that I'm actually FACTUALLY and ACCURATELY countering what the poster actually said instead of what you WANT the conversation to be about. You stomping your feet, refusing to put forward an argument of any kind, and desperately trying to change the topic isn't magically going to change it. Temper Tantrums don't tend to be successful debate tactics, so move on to a new one.
    besides the mandate being extracted from heritage's proposal was also the expectation that insurers be involved rather than the single payer program used in other industrialized nations
    those are the fundamentals of the Obamacare program
    ACA expanded upon and improved what the heritage foundation had earlier proposed
    no need to get all defensive when it is pointed out that something you posted was in error
    you do both quite a bit
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: U.S. justices decline to hear another Obamacare challenge

    The sad part about the whole ACA is once again the court did not protect the people from government. it handed the government a massive power grab is what it did.
    now as long as the government can come up with a tax they can force you to buy or subscribe to whatever service or product they want you to with that ruling.

    the ACA is just a tip of the iceberg. without that ruling there is no way that they get pass a single payer system now they can.

    I am against any form of government run health plan or government involvment in peoples health.
    government has proven that it cannot operate efficiently.

    as i said i am for an all cash system with the only real insurance is catastrophic coverage. even then that is not needed. this system works very well in other places.

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    Re: U.S. justices decline to hear another Obamacare challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Historically, the free market system has been based on upfront payment. Meaning, no money, no doctor. If that is the standard for fine, okay - let's go back to pre-1960s. See how many people can afford treatment at the exorbitant prices demanded by doctors which have historically been a luxury of the rich.
    Well now, pre-1960s doctors in my hometown took in chickens, livestock, gold and local geodes as payment. The doctor who delivered me, my Dad painted his house.

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    Re: U.S. justices decline to hear another Obamacare challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Well now, pre-1960s doctors in my hometown took in chickens, livestock, gold and local geodes as payment. The doctor who delivered me, my Dad painted his house.
    Yeah, that system still would have made healthcare unaffordable to most people in the 1950s as the majority of the population had already moved into cities. Actually, your argument assumes that the way people exchanged services 200 years ago (I honestly doubt your story from pre-1960s) would work today. Failing to consider 1) the modern cost of a doctor and 2) medical advances. Do you think doctors today would perform a double by-pass for an iPod? What about a stereo? What about a car? What would a doctor perform these services for? You can't even go to the dentist without spending a minimum of $50. What would a dentist perform his services for? Laptops? Maybe some bras from Victoria's Secret?
    Last edited by Hatuey; 12-04-13 at 06:34 PM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: U.S. justices decline to hear another Obamacare challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    besides the mandate being extracted from heritage's proposal was also the expectation that insurers be involved rather than the single payer program used in other industrialized nations
    those are the fundamentals of the Obamacare program
    ACA expanded upon and improved what the heritage foundation had earlier proposed
    no need to get all defensive when it is pointed out that something you posted was in error
    you do both quite a bit
    And wallah, rather than admit that you are regurgitating an already debunked talking point that originated with a well known that strives to compete with Rush Limbaugh for hyperbolic sophistry, you just cling to the ridiculous claim like a lost sailor to a life raft in a sea storm. We already know who at Heritage authored the proposal that contained the idea that shared one thing with the ACA, a individual mandate, was. And we also know that the republican party rejected the proposed plan. So of course here you and others are, on the internet arguing the ACA was authored by the republican party and proving there is no fact that nutters and boobs can't dismiss and ignore as they repeat bunkum that already failed to pass the sniff test of more thoughtful and honest people in the real world.

    Seriously, let's say that the ACA was literally and wholly crafted and created by the republican party twenty something years ago, via a dupe they convinced to take credit for it at Heritage. Why and how would this assist the democrats that passed the ACA today? The pundit that dreamed this all up never really thought much further along the path of excuse making as to what this was all supposed to mean or accomplish per se. So why not tell us what you think it is? So far at DP all we have seen is volunteer after volunteer regurgitate the ridiculous talking point, without thought for what it was supposed to accomplish in the end. Aside from the obviously trite, it (ACA) is the republicans fault not the democrats. So This should be pretty good. Or more likely, crickets.

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    Re: U.S. justices decline to hear another Obamacare challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Yeah, that system still would have made healthcare unaffordable to most people in the 1950s as the majority of the population had already moved into cities. Actually, your argument assumes that the way people exchanged services 200 years ago (I honestly doubt your story from pre-1960s) would work today. Failing to consider 1) the modern cost of a doctor and 2) medical advances. Do you think doctors today would perform a double by-pass for an iPod? What about a stereo? What about a car? What would a doctor perform these services for? You can't even go to the dentist without spending a minimum of $50. What would a dentist perform his services for? Laptops? Maybe some bras from Victoria's Secret?
    We were still largely a rural nation in the 50s and yes indeed my story comes from the 50s in a small mountain town in Northern California. I wasn't proposing barter as a nationwide replacement for our payment system. I was simply commenting upon your post and timeline.

    EDIT: You were right about the breaking point being the 50s in rural/urban population. I checked around and except for the 70s rural living has been losing ground steadily since 20s. You were correct on that point, at least nationally.
    Last edited by clownboy; 12-04-13 at 08:11 PM.

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    Re: U.S. justices decline to hear another Obamacare challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Shouldn't you be amazed that the Democrats are clinging so hard to a "Heritage Foundation Idea" (tm) that's failing miserably?



    I'm amazed that you guys are amazed.

    Is anyone else amazed at this amazing stuff?

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    Re: U.S. justices decline to hear another Obamacare challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Heritage guy wants to suggest obamacare was unconstitutional but his idea wasn't. So apparently he cares.

    Do you have the right to dump medical costs on to me?



    The Supreme Court said that the U.S. government does.

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    Re: U.S. justices decline to hear another Obamacare challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    No, my post demonstrates the "Responding to what people actually say" phenomenon. you should try it sometimes.

    Dana did not claim that the Mandate was concieved by Heritage (Which is also a questionable comment in and of itself, since they weren't hte first to suggest such).

    He claimed THE LAW, ie the entiretity of ACA, was "concieved" by Heritage. This isn't just false, it's absurd to a staggering degree.

    If he meant something else he should've said something else. You shuffling in to try and clean up the mess and failing to actually respond to any of the legitimate, factual, accurate points I made doesn't magically change that.
    The argument that the ACA is a republican invention is an attempt to deflect on the dems own failing law.

    Obama is doing it as well-its what they do.

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    Re: U.S. justices decline to hear another Obamacare challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    besides the mandate being extracted from heritage's proposal was also the expectation that insurers be involved rather than the single payer program used in other industrialized nations
    those are the fundamentals of the Obamacare program
    ACA expanded upon and improved what the heritage foundation had earlier proposed
    no need to get all defensive when it is pointed out that something you posted was in error
    you do both quite a bit
    Has anyone in the Obama Administration given credit to the Heritage Foundation for their input or are some of their sycophants only trying to pass the responsibility for this boondoggle elsewhere?

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