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Thread: China warplanes tail U.S. and Japan fighter jets; How Far Will China Go?

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    Re: China warplanes tail U.S. and Japan fighter jets; How Far Will China Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hdreamz View Post
    Im 3rd generation Dutch/British Boer... And I still think an airstrike on Paris would improve European discourse, what you gonna do...
    I can't disagree with that logic...

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    Re: China warplanes tail U.S. and Japan fighter jets; How Far Will China Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    When I get home i will see if I can find the article I read on that carrier a while back. It kinda sounded like a clown car instead of a serious carrier.
    China launches aircraft carrier amid rising tensions with Japan | World news | theguardian.com

    China's first aircraft carrier: From Russia with love | Editorial | Comment is free | The Guardian

    China's first aircraft carrier conducts maiden flight landing
    "Truly I was born to be an example of misfortune, and a target at which the arrows of adversary are aimed"

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    Re: China warplanes tail U.S. and Japan fighter jets; How Far Will China Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    Psst, he is a hamster.
    Like Spike the Hamster...


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    Re: China warplanes tail U.S. and Japan fighter jets; How Far Will China Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    The Chinese can't sell us anything by shooting down a military plane. No, they're just posturing and making themselves feel important. In the meantime, why are we flying military planes in their airspace? Same reason, maybe?
    It is Japan's Airspace. China publishing a map that says "oh, this is ours now" does not actually make it theirs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123
    I'm somewhat concerned because the Chinese have backed themselves into a corner. They obviously did not anticipate such a strong reaction from the United States and the coordination of her allies in challenging this zone
    If this is a plan, then my bet would be it looks like this:

    Raise tensions to the point where Japan finally shoots down a Chinese UAV. Declare that to be an Act of War, and take some posturing moves. Then declare that you're willing to start talks over the issue, thereby placing Japan in a no-win situation. Either they can refuse, in which case China appears to be de-escalating and Japan looks like the aggressor (which is easy for her to do in that region of the world) thus degrading her ability to form closer defense relationships with the Philippines, Vietnam, Singapore, Malaysia, et. al., or Japan has to admit the disputed nature of the Senkakus (which - I would bet - would be what China is after).

    But I think it is very possible that you are correct that they simply did not anticipate a Combined US-JPN-ROK reaction like they've seen. I wonder if they read too much into our failure to defend red lines in Syria and focus on Iranian negotiations.

    But now that they have committed to it so strongly the only options are to retract it, enforce it, or not enforce it. Two of those choices are deeply embarrassing, and one would be catastrophic. I don't know what they were thinking, this is amateur hour at the Politburo.
    Well, outside of the above scenario, yeah, they are in some trouble. The question that I wonder who is asking is what the leaderships self-perceived ability to back down is. If they are - as a growing number thing - in for some serious fiscal pain with their economic readjustment, then it may be that they can't afford to look weak on Restoring the Grand Tradition as well.

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    Re: China warplanes tail U.S. and Japan fighter jets; How Far Will China Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    The only thing old on that carrier is the ships hull. The carrier was completely gutted and rebuilt from the keel up with a new propulsion and power generating system, electronics. advanced radars, communications and weapons systems. There's little that is old on that carrier.

    What the worlds naval community are asking, how will the Chinese use their carrier ? Sea lane control, air strike, surface warfare or as an ASW carrier ? Nobody knows yet.
    What's to "ask"? They have one, which isn't operational, and no planes. Some people make it seem like ZOMG, they have a CARRIER!!! They rule the seas now!!! They barely have a navy.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: China warplanes tail U.S. and Japan fighter jets; How Far Will China Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    When I get home i will see if I can find the article I read on that carrier a while back. It kinda sounded like a clown car instead of a serious carrier.
    It's the real thing:



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    Re: China warplanes tail U.S. and Japan fighter jets; How Far Will China Go?


    Do you know what sailors call a Carrier without a Carrier Strike Group to support it?

    HINT: It's also the name of a major retail chain, and it rhymes with "Schmarget".







    this is a toy they are selling in Japan. Recognize that swoop-deck in the background?
    Last edited by cpwill; 11-29-13 at 05:21 PM.

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    Re: China warplanes tail U.S. and Japan fighter jets; How Far Will China Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    It's the real thing:


    They do the comparison here with the Ford-class (and by extension, Nimitz-class), but it's arguably more comparable to our Wasp-class. Somewhere in between, I suppose.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: China warplanes tail U.S. and Japan fighter jets; How Far Will China Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    When I get home i will see if I can find the article I read on that carrier a while back. It kinda sounded like a clown car instead of a serious carrier.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    No, you don't need planes for sea trials. But that's a long way from being operational.

    Keep in mind, also, that just having a carrier doesn't mean you know how to run and use one effectively. That comes from experience and naval tradition, neither of which China has.
    Honestly, it's not the aircraft carrier that we should be worried about. It's more of a statement piece at this point. The real threat comes from their ASBM (or Anti-Ship Ballistic Missiles.) If they wanted to, they could lock down the East China Sea within moments by preventing any ship from entering the area. The strategy, coined Anti-Access/Area Denial (or A2/AD is a fancy term for layered defense across multiple areas such as land, sea, air. A2/AD seeks to wedge an asymmetrical dagger in the heart of America's seemingly insurmountable military edge. Weapons such as ultra-quiet diesel submarines, advanced mines, anti-ship weapons, and even cyber or anti-satellite weapons would seek to engage U.S. forces an in an effort to slow, stop or deter enemy combatants from entering a, let's say, air defense zone.

    America's Anti-Access Nightmare Coming True

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    Re: China warplanes tail U.S. and Japan fighter jets; How Far Will China Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    While this may simply be posturing, it still is very dangerous to have war planes in such proximity to each other. My question: How likely is this to cause a conflict in the East China Sea? How serious should we take China's procolomation of "unspecified defensive measures against those that don't comply."
    It isn't like it hasn't happened before

    Hainan Island incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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