Page 11 of 19 FirstFirst ... 910111213 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 182

Thread: China warplanes tail U.S. and Japan fighter jets; How Far Will China Go?

  1. #101
    Guru
    Hamster Buddha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Last Seen
    10-14-15 @ 06:10 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    3,675

    Re: China warplanes tail U.S. and Japan fighter jets; How Far Will China Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    We went over this in a different thread. This is part and parcel of your tendency toward denigrating your own country because of your anti-Obama fervor.

    I WILL say this -- the ONLY source from which our dominance of the oceans faces serious threat in the foreseeable future is internal.
    My Point though, is that China isn't looking for worldwide dominance, just over the East and South China Seas. The requirements for that are significantly less then what would be needed for a country to project it's power across the globe.

  2. #102
    Curmudgeon


    LowDown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Houston
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:35 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    11,572
    Blog Entries
    11

    Re: China warplanes tail U.S. and Japan fighter jets; How Far Will China Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    While this may simply be posturing, it still is very dangerous to have war planes in such proximity to each other. My question: How likely is this to cause a conflict in the East China Sea? How serious should we take China's procolomation of "unspecified defensive measures against those that don't comply."
    Reminds me of The Bedford Incident.

    In any case, things are heating up.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

  3. #103
    Sage
    KevinKohler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    CT
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:24 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    15,992
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: China warplanes tail U.S. and Japan fighter jets; How Far Will China Go?

    God I hope some **** comes of this. Maybe then we'll get serious about boycotting Chinese made crap.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

  4. #104
    Advisor Hdreamz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    London, UK
    Last Seen
    04-27-14 @ 05:29 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    330

    Re: China warplanes tail U.S. and Japan fighter jets; How Far Will China Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Heya Beaudreaux What resources are on these Islands?



    Its not necessarily the islands that contain resources, but the ocean and seabed which would effectively be ceded to China. In a similar way to the Falklands in the 80's and the current oil and gas exploration in progress in its related territorial waters...
    "Truly I was born to be an example of misfortune, and a target at which the arrows of adversary are aimed"

  5. #105
    Advisor Hdreamz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    London, UK
    Last Seen
    04-27-14 @ 05:29 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    330

    Re: China warplanes tail U.S. and Japan fighter jets; How Far Will China Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    God I hope some **** comes of this. Maybe then we'll get serious about boycotting Chinese made crap.
    Do you boycott Chinese goods currently?
    "Truly I was born to be an example of misfortune, and a target at which the arrows of adversary are aimed"

  6. #106
    Preserve Protect Defend
    Beaudreaux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Covfefe, NC
    Last Seen
    12-14-17 @ 05:00 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    15,566

    Re: China warplanes tail U.S. and Japan fighter jets; How Far Will China Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Heya Beaudreaux What resources are on these Islands?



    On the islands? Weeds.

    Under the islands and the surrounding sea? Oil.

    Plus, this extension by China would also move their ADIZ out to a point that is would make it more difficult for the US to come to the aid of Taiwan if China decided to get stupid. This ADIZ cuts the routes from Korea and Japan to Taiwan.

  7. #107
    Sage
    Sherman123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northeast US
    Last Seen
    11-23-17 @ 11:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,774

    Re: China warplanes tail U.S. and Japan fighter jets; How Far Will China Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    It is Japan's Airspace. China publishing a map that says "oh, this is ours now" does not actually make it theirs.



    If this is a plan, then my bet would be it looks like this:

    Raise tensions to the point where Japan finally shoots down a Chinese UAV. Declare that to be an Act of War, and take some posturing moves. Then declare that you're willing to start talks over the issue, thereby placing Japan in a no-win situation. Either they can refuse, in which case China appears to be de-escalating and Japan looks like the aggressor (which is easy for her to do in that region of the world) thus degrading her ability to form closer defense relationships with the Philippines, Vietnam, Singapore, Malaysia, et. al., or Japan has to admit the disputed nature of the Senkakus (which - I would bet - would be what China is after).

    But I think it is very possible that you are correct that they simply did not anticipate a Combined US-JPN-ROK reaction like they've seen. I wonder if they read too much into our failure to defend red lines in Syria and focus on Iranian negotiations.



    Well, outside of the above scenario, yeah, they are in some trouble. The question that I wonder who is asking is what the leaderships self-perceived ability to back down is. If they are - as a growing number thing - in for some serious fiscal pain with their economic readjustment, then it may be that they can't afford to look weak on Restoring the Grand Tradition as well.
    I think the most likely answer is that they overplayed their hand. One of the hallmarks of Chinese foreign policy for the past decade has been colossal incompetence when it comes to assessing the reactions of foreign powers. In the space of a few years China has virtually shed all of the credibility it had stockpiled as a trustworthy and/or peaceable power by aggressively engaging in these regional territorial disputes. These inexplicable decisions have hurled South Korea, Japan, the Philippines, Vietnam, Singapore, etc more firmly towards the US camp and along an anti-China access than anything else. I think that once again they didn't anticipate this reaction and I think they are unbelievably blind to how they are perceived by regional and international actors.

  8. #108
    Sage
    Sherman123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northeast US
    Last Seen
    11-23-17 @ 11:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,774

    Re: China warplanes tail U.S. and Japan fighter jets; How Far Will China Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    The Chinese carrier is at sea and are conducting air operations training. The Chinese have already laid the keel for a second carrier. China plans on having four carriers and maybe more.

    The threat isn't today but twenty or thirty years in the future. Most in the worlds naval community believe that China will challenge the U.S. Navy in the South China Sea in twenty or so years.

    This is why most in the U.S. military community and our Allies in the Pacific criticize Obama for only paying attention to the present and not looking at what threats there are over the horizon.

    While the current U.S. Navy under the Obama administration struggles just keeping two carriers at sea, our Navy has become a hollow force and can't even project it's power as it was able to do five years ago. Look at what just happened in the Mediterranean during the Syrian show down some months ago. We were only able to deploy three additional destroyers to the 6th Fleet AOR. When the Chief of Naval Operations was asked "whear are our carriers" ? "Why is our surge carrier still sitting in Norfolk" ? His answerer was the carrier's crew weren't properly trained to put to sea. Instead of training to go to war they are attending mandatory classroom sensitivity training.

    While our Navy is shrinking our allies took notice and our building up their navies.

    Great Britian are building two large super carriers and new escorts. Japan just launched it's first aircraft carrier since WW ll. India's is buying Russia's old carriers while the Russian Bear has come out of hibernation and will be building three new fleets with all new high tech warships. And more often than not, the Russians get it right with new ship designs.

    There's a world wide navy build up going on as war clouds are forming over the Western Pacific. And our current administration is to incompetent to see it.

    During the Syrian show down in the Med, do you know why the Nimitz Carrier Strike Group was hold up in the Red Sea and didn't transit the Suez Canal and enter the 6th Fleet AOR ?

    Because Putin moved one of his Slava class cruisers into the Mediterranean Sea. A Slava class cruiser was designed for one mission, to sink a Nimitz class carrier and it's escorts from 300 miles away with mach-5 supersonic anti ship missiles, each with a 2,000 explosive warhead. And a Slava class cruiser doesn't work alone, it has a few attack subs designed to sink NATO ships and hunt down American subs. It also has AA destroyers who main purpose is protecting the cruiser by shooting down NATO aircraft and ASW destroyers designed to destroy American subs.

    Attachment 67157458
    It is extremely difficult to pin the blame for our anemic Navy on the Obama Administration when so much of the problem is rooted in an incredibly long and expensive project appropriations and development process. When it turned out that LCS and Zumwalt were duds we'd already spend decades and billions to develop them. We're only now making the decision to go back to the Burkes, and this is a decision that will have ramifications for the next twenty years and all the intervening Presidencies. That is just one small part of the problem. At the end of the day we have an increasingly aging fleet, severe problems with maintenance, problems with keeping experienced personal on our ships, problems with funding full systems readiness, etc. These are structural problems that have been brewing on a long timeline. Short of a major infusion of cash and a massive overhaul they are problems we are going to band aid over till we come out the other side.

  9. #109
    Sage
    Sherman123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northeast US
    Last Seen
    11-23-17 @ 11:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,774

    Re: China warplanes tail U.S. and Japan fighter jets; How Far Will China Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Honestly, it's not the aircraft carrier that we should be worried about. It's more of a statement piece at this point. The real threat comes from their ASBM (or Anti-Ship Ballistic Missiles.) If they wanted to, they could lock down the East China Sea within moments by preventing any ship from entering the area. The strategy, coined Anti-Access/Area Denial (or A2/AD is a fancy term for layered defense across multiple areas such as land, sea, air. A2/AD seeks to wedge an asymmetrical dagger in the heart of America's seemingly insurmountable military edge. Weapons such as ultra-quiet diesel submarines, advanced mines, anti-ship weapons, and even cyber or anti-satellite weapons would seek to engage U.S. forces an in an effort to slow, stop or deter enemy combatants from entering a, let's say, air defense zone.

    America's Anti-Access Nightmare Coming True
    Anti-ship ballistic missiles are not realistic weapons, and the DF-21 especially is not worth being concerned about.

    Firstly there is a very good reason no nuclear state uses ballistic missiles as tactical weapons aside from rocket artillery. Why? Because there is no immediately knowing if the missile signature detected carries a nuclear payload. It has been a recurring problem the United States has faced when trying to develop its Prompt Global Strike Program. The only realistic way to accomplish the goals of the program at present is an enhanced ICBM capability. But we cant really do that. Because there is no way for other powers to be certain that the missile in question is conventional and not a sinister nuclear strike. Likewise there is no way to be sure that the MRBM heading towards one of our carrier battle groups is armed with a conventional or nuclear payload.

    Secondly its just technically really difficult to do and China has a poor track record. You have to identify the ship you want to hit, make sure it is the one you think it is, spin up your missile, make sure your targeting information is accurate (satellite intelligence more than a few minutes out of date wont help), and then fire a ballistic missile at a moving target on the ocean and not only hope it hits but hope it isn't intercepted.

    China is big on rolling out wunderwaffe and big prestige weapons projects. They are bad at serial producing modern military technology. What is most concerning about the Chinese military buildup isn't their token aircraft carrier (which by the way is going to get sunk the first night of the war) it is the massive growth of their littoral air arm, missile boats & submarines, and ASCM capabilities. The real risk we face from China is being swamped by a flood of aircraft and smaller vessels that try and attrit Allied forces in their littoral zones and gain control over the area. I think they are actually relatively close to that being a plausible objective. The best countermeasure is to station more ships and aircraft in encircling countries.

  10. #110
    defected to kekistan
    beerftw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    kekistan
    Last Seen
    12-13-17 @ 01:42 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    13,376

    Re: China warplanes tail U.S. and Japan fighter jets; How Far Will China Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    The only thing old on that carrier is the ships hull. The carrier was completely gutted and rebuilt from the keel up with a new propulsion and power generating system, electronics. advanced radars, communications and weapons systems. There's little that is old on that carrier.

    What the worlds naval community are asking, how will the Chinese use their carrier ? Sea lane control, air strike, surface warfare or as an ASW carrier ? Nobody knows yet.
    i wouldnt be too worried about such a chinese carrier,its built off a russian carrier,and russia to date has never had a successfull aircraft carrier,they could build missle and tanks and advanced jets,but asking them to buuild a functioning aircraft carrier,and the russian engineers cringe.


    now you have the chinese with no experience in that area modifying a ship built by a country that couldnt get them to work right,its a recipe for failure.not to mention if youve ever seen chinas navy plan,it is to turn cargo ships into battleships,and send soldiers in cargo ships sleeping in connexes.seeing how underpowered their navy is,its no surprise they want to play catchup so bad.

    or in old world war logic,those who control the sea control the war,china has no control over any sea should it be at war,hence it will fail fur to poor logistics.
    “[The metric system is the tool of the Devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and that’s the way I likes it!” – Abe “Grampa” Simpson”

Page 11 of 19 FirstFirst ... 910111213 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •