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Pope issues mission statement for papacy

Hatuey said:
There are so many fallacies in this post I simply highlighted them in different colors. Red is strawman 1. Blue is a nonsequitur. Green is strawman 2.
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Only two colors were necessary but, in any case, this is the first time I've seen debate via color coding. We'll see if this precedent catches on.
 
Hatuey said:
There are so many fallacies in this post I simply highlighted them in different colors. Red is strawman 1. Blue is a nonsequitur. Green is strawman 2.
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Pretty colors does not a rebuttal make. But you can proclaim what you want if it makes you feel better :)
 
digsbe said:
Pretty colors does not a rebuttal make. But you can proclaim what you want if it makes you feel better :)
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It's a rebuttal in the sense that you made a giant strawman argument out of the pope's words. He doesn't even mention the government or making anything compulsory. His message is out to the human species as a whole.
 
Grant said:
Only two colors were necessary but, in any case, this is the first time I've seen debate via color coding. We'll see if this precedent catches on.
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I disagree. I think the text in green is an expansion of the red fallacy with the addition of an entirely new fallacy about church doctrine.
 
Hatuey said:
It's a rebuttal in the sense that you made a giant strawman argument out of the pope's words. He doesn't even mention the government or making anything compulsory. His message is out to the human species as a whole.
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No, those are my words and my theology as a Christian based on Biblical teaching contrasting with what the pope is advocating. I apologize if it appeared that I was trying to talk for the pope, I'm just merely pointing out why he's likely wrong if (and I did say if) he is advocating for government policy on the issue.
 
digsbe said:
The Pope isn't an economist. He may have good intentions (or maybe ulterior motives) but he's naive on this issue. It's one thing to denounce and say something, but to be productive he should offer his own economic plan or one that's feasible. I'm not Catholic nor do I respect the Pope's position from a religious perspective, but I like some of what he does.
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The pope is naive on this issue but digsbe isn't? LOL ok buddy.
 
Hatuey said:
I disagree. I think the text in green is an expansion of the red fallacy with the addition of an entirely new fallacy about church doctrine.
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Yes, it is quite attractive and an interesting new concept.
 
digsbe said:
No, those are my words and my theology as a Christian based on Biblical teaching contrasting with what the pope is advocating. I apologize if it appeared that I was trying to talk for the pope, I'm just merely pointing out why he's likely wrong if (and I did say if) he is advocating for government policy on the issue.
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It's a good thing his message seems to be geared towards people doing this on a personal level and not calling on government to do it.
 
Grant said:
Why would that be so implausible? Is the Pope infallible?
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You think it's easy to become a pope? If I'm gonna take a stab at who is more well-read, the pope or some random internet poster, I'm picking the pope and chances are pretty good that I'm right.

Also, the fact is that the pope is right, and this is coming from a conservative.
 
Hatuey said:
It's a good thing his message seems to be geared towards people doing this on a personal level and not calling on government to do it.
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Ding ding ding. Winner.

You win the reading comprehension and general intelligence award for this thread.
 
Peter Grimm said:
You think it's easy to become a pope? If I'm gonna take a stab at who is more well-read, the pope or some random internet poster, I'm picking the pope and chances are pretty good that I'm right.

Also, the fact is that the pope is right, and this is coming from a conservative.
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I'll pick the working stiff over the the preacher whoses never worked a day in his life, everytime. It reminds me of the saying: those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.
 
apdst said:
I'll pick the working stiff over the the preacher whoses never worked a day in his life, everytime. It reminds me of the saying: those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.
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You don't think the pope has worked a day in his life?

No words, man.
 
Hatuey said:
Pope issues mission statement for papacy



I'm by no means a fan of the Catholic Church. It's a corrupt group of old men presiding over who gets rich from the poor. However, I'm definitely an ideological fan of this pope. Though I doubt he'll restore the church in his lifetime, I do find him to be far more open to change than his predecessors. He's tackling internal issues. He's attacking a society that sees wealth as a goal and not a means. I definitely like him.
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Yeah, while they sit in their solid gold Vatican City. It's pathetic and hypocritical. Let him sell Vatican City and give to the poor before judging the rest of us.
 
Hatuey said:
Yeah... it's not like christianity was founded on principles of sharing wealth, renouncing materialism and caring for the poor. Those are all 20th century leftist principles. :lol:
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Good point, because it certainly wasn't founded on any of that.
 
Peter Grimm said:
You think it's easy to become a pope? If I'm gonna take a stab at who is more well-read, the pope or some random internet poster, I'm picking the pope and chances are pretty good that I'm right.

Also, the fact is that the pope is right, and this is coming from a conservative.
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Good grief. He trying to put butts back in the pews and stop the bleeding. The more butts in pews, they more folks who give to the church, the more powerful the church is. It's not about the poor or downtrodden. It's about the church maintaining it's wealth and power. So transparent it's a wonder how folks can buy this nonsense.

If he were at all serious about what he's saying he could lead by example from day one. But that's just not going to happen. The Vatican will retain it's existing wealth and gain more. They won't open their archives, they won't open their books, they won't sacrifice one iota of their wealth to help the poor. But hey, they want you to.

Sucker born every minute.
 
Hatuey said:
Yeah... it's not like christianity was founded on principles of sharing wealth, renouncing materialism and caring for the poor. Those are all 20th century leftist principles. :lol:
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What idiot taught you that?...lol!

God says earn your living by the sweat of your brow, too; guess that leaves out the welfare class.

I like how Libbos denounce Christianity as racist and evil, until the Pope makes a statement that can be vaguely interpreted supporting socialism.
 
clownboy said:
Good grief. He trying to put butts back in the pews and stop the bleeding. The more butts in pews, they more folks who give to the church, the more powerful the church is. It's not about the poor or downtrodden. It's about the church maintaining it's wealth and power. So transparent it's a wonder how folks can buy this nonsense.

If he were at all serious about what he's saying he could lead by example from day one. But that's just not going to happen. The Vatican will retain it's existing wealth and gain more. They won't open their archives, they won't open their books, they won't sacrifice one iota of their wealth to help the poor. But hey, they want you to.

Sucker born every minute.
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Just keep flapping your gums, clownboy. The Catholic Church does more charity work and gives more of its wealth to the poor than any other institution on earth. It always has. Fact.

So you fail on many levels.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Just keep flapping your gums, clownboy. The Catholic Church does more charity work and gives more of its wealth to the poor than any other institution on earth. It always has. Fact.

So you fail on many levels.
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to a greater level than the salvation army? do you have a link confirming your assertion?
 
Peter Grimm said:
You think it's easy to become a pope? If I'm gonna take a stab at who is more well-read, the pope or some random internet poster, I'm picking the pope and chances are pretty good that I'm right.

Also, the fact is that the pope is right, and this is coming from a conservative.
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There is no doubt that the Pope is well read but what he has read is also a factor. I would never argue religion with the man but would not be fearful of discussing other subjects.

If he is saying that looking after others is the responsibility of the individual rather than the government, except in severe cases, than we share common ground. Any successor to Pope John Paul II has a hard act to follow.
 
justabubba said:
to a greater level than the salvation army? do you have a link confirming your assertion?
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Much, much greater than the Salvation Army. Whichever city you live in or near will probably have a St. Something hospital. If you had traveled through the Americans you would be very familiar with the charities they perform, and they are also very active in Africa. The Catholic Church has certainly had its scandals, as has every organization which has been around long enough, but the good they have done far outweighs any bad. I'm not a Catholic btw.
 
apdst said:
What idiot taught you that?...lol!

God says earn your living by the sweat of your brow, too; guess that leaves out the welfare class.
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please share with us how that is accomplished when there are more workers than jobs

I like how Libbos denounce Christianity as racist and evil, until the Pope makes a statement that can be vaguely interpreted supporting socialism.
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much racism is conducted in the guise of Christianity ... notice what symbol those burning members form at a KKK rally
a lot of evil results while cloaked in the robes of Christianity
amazes me that you were not well acquainted with that reality

and the way Pope Francis is turning the direction of the catholic church around deserves praise from all quarters. that he embraces Jesus' admonition to help the least among us seems to aggravate you. why do so many self purported Christians act in ways opposing Jesus' teachings and instead pursue a life dedicated to self interest?
 
Grant said:
Much, much greater than the Salvation Army. Whichever city you live in or near will probably have a St. Something hospital. If you had traveled through the Americans you would be very familiar with the charities they perform, and they are also very active in Africa. The Catholic Church has certainly had its scandals, as has every organization which has been around long enough, but the good they have done far outweighs any bad. I'm not a Catholic btw.
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so, you have no facts to support your position. that is what i must assume because all you have offered in reply is an array of very weak anectdotes
 
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