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Thread: US B-52 bombers challenge disputed China air zone.

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    Re: US B-52 bombers challenge disputed China air zone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    It's a unilateral territorial grab. Don't know why that's so difficult to fathom.
    depends on what side you sit on. China see it as returing what is rightfully theirs from a previously agressive neighbour.
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: US B-52 bombers challenge disputed China air zone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    depends on what side you sit on. China see it as returing what is rightfully theirs from a previously agressive neighbour.
    Well, then we see what "side you sit on."
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: US B-52 bombers challenge disputed China air zone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    They disagree, they claim that it was Japan who were the aggressors and claimed the islands during their empire building days. China state that they would of made a claim on the islands after WW2 if they wern't under US adminstration. The PRC and the ROC argue that evidence prior to the First Sino-Japanese War indicates Chinese possession and that the territory is accordingly a Japanese seizure that should be returned as the rest of Imperial Japan's conquests were returned in 1945.
    It isn't relevant what they claim. Spain claims that Gibraltar is Spanish not British territory, Argentina claims the same for the Falklands, Haiti over Navassa island, Turkey and Greece over the Aegean islands, etc. In none of these cases is it acceptable for the non-occupying power to unilaterally declare a military zone over the subject area with the implication of asserting and fortifying that claim with military force. This is an attempt by China to establish facts on the ground and force regional powers to accept its claim. This should and has been rejected.

    An ancillary point worth mentioning is that it should matter which actors are involved. I do not want to see China expand its reach and influence at the expense of our allies and other regional powers. That would be a highly negative outcome.

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    Re: US B-52 bombers challenge disputed China air zone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Well, then we see what "side you sit on."
    Yeh I Sympathise with the Chinese on this one, Japan were not exactly the best of neighbours and justice wasn't exactly served in their eyes. They were unable to make a claim on the islands after WW2 because of their revoloution and then the Islands passed into American adminstration. When the time came to hand over control of these islands I think their should of been a larger disvussion on who should be given ownership, instead the US passed it along to Japan and not just these islands either there are islands close to Korea which are also disputed.
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: US B-52 bombers challenge disputed China air zone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    Yeh I Sympathise with the Chinese on this one, Japan were not exactly the best of neighbours and justice wasn't exactly served in their eyes. They were unable to make a claim on the islands after WW2 because of their revoloution and then the Islands passed into American adminstration. When the time came to hand over control of these islands I think their should of been a larger disvussion on who should be given ownership, instead the US passed it along to Japan and not just these islands either there are islands close to Korea which are also disputed.
    So, you think there should be "discussion," but you also think we should bow to aggressive, unilateral military moves.

    I ask you again -- why shouldn't China be waiting for that "discussion" before doing this?
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: US B-52 bombers challenge disputed China air zone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    It isn't relevant what they claim. Spain claims that Gibraltar is Spanish not British territory, Argentina claims the same for the Falklands, Haiti over Navassa island, Turkey and Greece over the Aegean islands, etc. In none of these cases is it acceptable for the non-occupying power to unilaterally declare a military zone over the subject area with the implication of asserting and fortifying that claim with military force. This is an attempt by China to establish facts on the ground and force regional powers to accept its claim. This should and has been rejected.

    An ancillary point worth mentioning is that it should matter which actors are involved. I do not want to see China expand its reach and influence at the expense of our allies and other regional powers. That would be a highly negative outcome.
    Well we legally obtained Gibralter and as for the Falklands they were inhabited by British citizens when they were invaded hence why our military responded in kind. However unlike Japan we don't need to hide behind our large allies to deal with our disputes we back up our claim.
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: US B-52 bombers challenge disputed China air zone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    So, you think there should be "discussion," but you also think we should bow to aggressive, unilateral military moves.

    I ask you again -- why shouldn't China be waiting for that "discussion" before doing this?
    No i think there should of been a discussion but the time for that has passed, Japans recent moves have forced Chinas response.
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: US B-52 bombers challenge disputed China air zone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    Well we legally obtained Gibralter and as for the Falklands they were inhabited by British citizens when they were invaded hence why our military responded in kind. However unlike Japan we don't need to hide behind our large allies to deal with our disputes we back up our claim.
    You legally obtained Gibraltar? Well isn't that a nice bow on that dispute. You'll be happy to know that Japan legally acquired the Senkaku's. China may disagree, but hey so do Spain and Argentina! And being able to fend off Spain or Argentina has nothing to do with anything. Unless you are saying the only legitimacy worth considering stems from the barrel of a gun.

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    Re: US B-52 bombers challenge disputed China air zone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    No i think there should of been a discussion but the time for that has passed, Japans recent moves have forced Chinas response.
    Your posts are actually starting to make me think this comes from an anti-Japanese bias, for whatever reason that might be.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: US B-52 bombers challenge disputed China air zone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    No i think there should of been a discussion but the time for that has passed, Japans recent moves have forced Chinas response.
    Cementing their control over an island they've occupied for more than a century? In any event neither the US nor Japan will bow to this blatant effort at intimidation. I wonder how China will find a way to draw down without risking further embarrassment. It clearly is not capable of preventing US-Japanese overflights that ignore their authority.

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