Page 41 of 53 FirstFirst ... 31394041424351 ... LastLast
Results 401 to 410 of 522

Thread: US, Iran nuclear deal spurs bipartisan concern in Congress

  1. #401
    Haters gon' hate
    MarineTpartier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Last Seen
    01-04-16 @ 04:58 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,586
    Blog Entries
    8

    Re: BREAKING NEWS: Iran, 6 world powers reach deal on Iranian nuclear program

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    This is, of course, the rationale used for time immemorial to justify capitulating to tyrants. In the real world the US Administration has every interest in maintaining the appearance that their peace gambit worked for political reasons and will be unwilling to admit that their opposition was correct about Iran all along when (not if) Iran breaks the deal. The administration will carry on this charade for as long as possible claiming they brought peace when, in the end, all they have done is embolden the bloodthirsty Iranian leadership.
    And, if the Obama administration fails to reinforce the vacated sanctions, then I will be the first to say that they are wrong for doing it and screwed the pooch. However, right now, the onus is on Iran. If they follow the agreement to the law, and I realize that's a big if, then we extend the deal another time period. So on, so forth. You act as if Iran has been given a blank check and the ability to run wild. That's not the case. Very few of the sanctions leveled against them have been removed and, according to the POTUS, will be reinstated if they violate the agreement. I realize that trusting Pres Obama and Iran is probably futile. But Im willing to give it a shot.
    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    All Iran is doing is using the same playbook used by North Korea during it's run up to nuclear weapons. They claim they want peace, get billions of dollars in frozen assets and aid in an agreement to stop the weapons program, and then use that money to accelerate their nuclear weapon program. Wash, rinse, repeat until the weapon is created.
    And look what it got them. No one supports them at all, they are isolated and won't hold out forever with the way they live, and they had one friggin weapon that couldn't reach us anyway. Also, looks like South Korea (who would be the equivalent of Israel in this situation) is doing fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    If this "thing is screwed up" it wouldn't be our troops in Afghanistan that would be the target. What would follow the creation of the weapon would be a systematic takeover of the middle East by Iran under threat of nuclear annihilation of the surrounding states. This has always been the goal of the Iranian leadership. We know this because this is what the Iranian leadership says it wants. They seek the reestablishment of the Caliphate.
    Yes, one small nuke (which is what they would have) would equal the take over of Iraq, Saudi, etc. Gimme a break man. You act as if they will have the arsenal we have in 6 months or something.
    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    The reason for the Iranian uprising in the 1960s and 70s was not due to our meddling in Iran, if anything the revolution was delayed a few decades by our meddling. The Iranian Revolution was sparked by the Shah's plan to grant legal status and voting rights to minorities and women. The Ayatollah spun up a revolution in the country on the grounds that this moderation and secularism was a direct threat to Islam and that the state needed to be overthrown and replaced with a theocracy, which is what they did. It's no surprise that in the months leading up to the toppling of the SHah that the approval rating of the Shah was on the rise given the Ayatollah as the alternative. What Carter's Secretary of State did at that point borders on criminal negligence.

    I would suggest you read a good deal more history of the Iranian revolution than you appear to have done thus far. Your "meddling for oil" understanding of what happened in Iran in the 50s 60s and 70s indicate a critical absence of key details in your evaluation of the events. The Shah was supported by the US as a counter to the rising trend towards Islamic radicalism in the Iranian state. The end result of a brutal theocracy in Iran was due to bungling by the State Department under Jimmy Carter that is eerily similar to the events unfolding in Egypt and Iran today.
    It's plain and simple. Not all of the cultural crap you bring up. Iran sought to nationalize their oil in the 50's. That's where all of this other stuff started up. The Brits, nor the US, liked that because oil prices would rise. So, we overthrew the gov't attempting to do this. That's it. Heck BP contributed money to the bribing of their officials. What more do you need to see that will show that this was nothing more than an attempt at controlling oil? I suggest you stop sensationalizing a simple black and white situation.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  2. #402
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:57 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,073

    Re: BREAKING NEWS: Iran, 6 world powers reach deal on Iranian nuclear program

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    and that Australia is "Britain's scrotum"? C'mon.
    Yeah, that I think is pretty much unique to him.

  3. #403
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:57 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,073

    Re: US, Iran nuclear deal spurs bipartisan concern in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    I'm confused too. I thought its the US GOP leadership who thinks a messianic figure will arise (the anti-Christ) and lead us into a world ending war and The Rapture.
    No. The idea that that is driving GOP Foreign policy is a smear, similar to the claim on the right that Obama does what he does because he's a secret Muslim who hates America. The idea that that drives a significant portion of the Iranian government is called "believing them when they tell us that it is".
    Last edited by cpwill; 11-25-13 at 11:19 PM.

  4. #404
    Quantum sufficit

    Threegoofs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    The birthplace of Italian Beef
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:55 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    26,522

    Re: US, Iran nuclear deal spurs bipartisan concern in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    No. The idea that that is driving GOP Foreign policy is a smear, similar to the claim on the right that Obama does what he does because he's a secret Muslim who hates America.
    Well, I think its a little closer to the truth than not. You can't deny a good chunk of the GOP base are evangelicals who think EXACTLY that way. Their fervent support of Israel is strongly influenced by 'end times' theology. And their GOP leaders aren't shy about pandering for their votes.

    You see politicians echoing this or outright saying it all the time. Look at Michelle Bachmann and a few of the other reps in the House. I recall the Bush administration having several people in significant positions who were Liberty University graduates.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

  5. #405
    Sage
    Sherman123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northeast US
    Last Seen
    11-23-17 @ 11:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,774

    Re: US, Iran nuclear deal spurs bipartisan concern in Congress

    One other point of consideration is that from the standpoint of wanting to hold Iran accountable and make the possibility of a more aggressive sanctions regimen or even military activity possible this deal lays good groundwork for that. Iran has relied heavily on arguments of positive intentions and ambiguity in the NPT regarding the right of enrichment vs. proliferation concerns. For the first time Iran has spelled out exactly what it sees its international commitments as and bound itself to following through on them. If these lines are egregiously crossed in the future I think it may be much easier to bring pressure to bear on them because they have put themselves on the line. Though as ever this all depends on how things look in six months time.

  6. #406
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:57 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,073

    Re: US, Iran nuclear deal spurs bipartisan concern in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Well, I think its a little closer to the truth than not.
    No, it is not. You will not identify a single American conservative program or policy that is fueled by that belief system.

    You are mistaking "Conservative Christians" for "people who shape foreign policy with the desire of bringing about the Apocalypse".

  7. #407
    Quantum sufficit

    Threegoofs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    The birthplace of Italian Beef
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:55 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    26,522

    Re: US, Iran nuclear deal spurs bipartisan concern in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    No, it is not. You will not identify a single American conservative program or policy that is fueled by that belief system.

    You are mistaking "Conservative Christians" for "people who shape foreign policy with the desire of bringing about the Apocalypse".
    Oh. So you're saying they are just pandering to the main constituency they have. Because people like Palin believe this stuff.

    http://m.theatlantic.com/internation...rapture/30587/

    And the sucking up to guys like Rev. Hagee clearly is influencing voters, which influences politicians, who direct FP,

    So your false equivalency of the Obama Commie Muslim thing is just wrong.

    My thoughts are based upon a basic truth, your example is based on a basic lie.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

  8. #408
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:57 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,073

    Re: US, Iran nuclear deal spurs bipartisan concern in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Oh. So you're saying they are just pandering to the main constituency they have.
    No. I am saying that Iranian religious conservatives really do believe that they have been blessed with the special authority to reorder their religion in order to politically prepare the ground for the coming of the Mahdi, and that key elements of their national decision-making and foreign policy hierarchies explicitly direct their actions towards this goal.

    That is no the same as "pandering". Pandering is when you throw out some red meat to keep a base whom you may or may not really agree with off your back or in your corner. Pandering =/= POLICY.

    So your false equivalency of the Obama Commie Muslim thing is just wrong.

    My thoughts are based upon a basic truth, your example is based on a basic lie.
    My thoughts are based on actually having even a passing familiarity with what the **** I am talking about. Your accusations here appear to be built on a strawman that allows you to feel intellectually superior to those with whom you disagree (although the joke is really on you if you have to create strawmen positions in order to feel intellectually superior to your opposition), but that lack any kind of actual demonstration.

    There is no American equivalent of Qods Force. There is no American Equivalent of the IRGC. There is no American Equivalent of Esmat. No American subjugation of political law to Eschatology. Even the most fervent believer in the City on a Hill does not preach Istishhad to achieve that City. No one in the American political establishment is actually actively trying to figure out how to trigger the End Times.

  9. #409
    Quantum sufficit

    Threegoofs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    The birthplace of Italian Beef
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:55 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    26,522

    Re: US, Iran nuclear deal spurs bipartisan concern in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    No. I am saying that Iranian religious conservatives really do believe that they have been blessed with the special authority to reorder their religion in order to politically prepare the ground for the coming of the Mahdi, and that key elements of their national decision-making and foreign policy hierarchies explicitly direct their actions towards this goal.

    That is no the same as "pandering". Pandering is when you throw out some red meat to keep a base whom you may or may not really agree with off your back or in your corner. Pandering =/= POLICY.



    My thoughts are based on actually having even a passing familiarity with what the **** I am talking about. Your accusations here appear to be built on a strawman that allows you to feel intellectually superior to those with whom you disagree (although the joke is really on you if you have to create strawmen positions in order to feel intellectually superior to your opposition), but that lack any kind of actual demonstration.

    There is no American equivalent of Qods Force. There is no American Equivalent of the IRGC. There is no American Equivalent of Esmat. No American subjugation of political law to Eschatology. Even the most fervent believer in the City on a Hill does not preach Istishhad to achieve that City. No one in the American political establishment is actually actively trying to figure out how to trigger the End Times.
    I was addressing your comment that the GOP and the End Times concept is the same as saying Obama is a Muslim whatever you said.

    I agree, Iran is certainly crazy religious. But we can't do a whole lot about that.

    But I think the GOP is infected with the same big, just a milder version. And we CAN be aware of this and actively fight it.

    No one is actively promoting triggering the End Times, but they're sure OK if it seems to go that way. The scariest example is the thought that Israel and US policy need to be the same (remember- no daylight between us!). This is promoted heavily among evangelicals, and certainly influences those in power.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

  10. #410
    Sage
    Navy Pride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Pacific NW
    Last Seen
    05-07-15 @ 02:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    39,883

    Re: US, Iran nuclear deal spurs bipartisan concern in Congress

    Over the years I have mostly believed that the only thing Muslim about Obama but I am beginning to change my mind on the. He does and says to many things that make me wonder. I truly believe he has no love for Israel and If Iran drove them into the sea he could care less.
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

Page 41 of 53 FirstFirst ... 31394041424351 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •