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Thread: US, Iran nuclear deal spurs bipartisan concern in Congress

  1. #361
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    Re: BREAKING NEWS: Iran, 6 world powers reach deal on Iranian nuclear program

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    The US is indeed exceptional, unlike any nation ever on earth. Economically, Scientifically, Militarily, Culturally. A mindset different from anywhere else. An nation of minorities. And we aren't just a country, we are an idea buddy-in fact America goes where American's go.

    Australia is Britains scrotum, pal.
    The above does not in any way represent the opinions of mainstream Americans. The poster is speaking only for himself. Most of us, in fact, are embarrassed by this elitist attitude.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: US, Iran nuclear deal spurs bipartisan concern in Congress

    Agreed. This is a monumental mistake. One can only hope we come to our senses. Meanwhile Israel knows what needs to be done. The sooner the better.

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    Re: BREAKING NEWS: Iran, 6 world powers reach deal on Iranian nuclear program

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    The above does not in any way represent the opinions of mainstream Americans. The poster is speaking only for himself. Most of us, in fact, are embarrassed by this elitist attitude.
    Shocking....America is exceptional regardless of what you're embarrassed by.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: BREAKING NEWS: Iran, 6 world powers reach deal on Iranian nuclear program

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    Our collection for Iraq wasn't Five Eyes based.
    All of it, no. But the majority of our IMINT is Five Eyes, and the HUMINT that we used was mostly via partner nations.

    We absolutely took Israeli intelligence. But, as your own link says:

    ...Israeli intelligence overplayed the threat posed by Iraq and reinforced the U.S. and British assessment that Saddam Hussein had large amounts of weapons of mass destruction...
    They reinforced our own positions, they didn't alter anything that we didn't already think. Every major IC came to the same conclusion about Iraq, and they were all wrong.

    US has exclusive collection in the middle east with a silent partnership with Israel.
    ...... no comment.

    Germany's BND had Curveball (the guy you are referring too) but you know who tipped us off on who had him? Mossad because he was a former Mossad source.
    Curveball was a German source. And the Germans kept him, fed us his intelligence, and wouldn't let us talk to him (apparently they made up a story that the guy was virulently anti-American). I can't find anything that said that we were alerted to him as a source of information by the Israelis, but if that is so then you have one ally (Israel) telling us about a potential source of information and another ally (Germany) lying to us about that source of information in order to keep us from fully accessing it.

    You know the answer to that.. Of course Iranian nuclear scientists were killed by bombs taught by Mossad to the MEK. That the MEK is a org has been around since the Iranian Revolution. In fact helped storm the US Embassy. But this is the kinda of idiocy Israel relies on to stir the pot. Israel lobbied to remove MEK from our Terrorist Org list so Israel can do dirty work in Iran.
    Can do our dirty work. If they were killed by the MEK... meh. Firstly, targeting requires collection, meaning that we had a pretty good picture of these guys, secondly, this was a pretty high-profile move; I would be surprised if Mossad just handed this off and didn't exercise overwatch and direction at the least.

    That kind of operation is actually harmful to the US.
    On the contrary. Killing a couple of scientists and unleashing a cyber network attack is a far preferable method of slowing down Iran's nuclear advances.

    Especially if the US wants a chance to have some kind of normal relation with Iran.
    A normal relationship with Iran probably involves some measure of regime change in that country. Because the current regime is not going to give up its' nuclear program for anything other than a perceived existential threat.

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    Re: BREAKING NEWS: Iran, 6 world powers reach deal on Iranian nuclear program

    Idiots and morons compare Iran to NK. Two different people. Two different cultures. Treating them in the same way is stupid.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: BREAKING NEWS: Iran, 6 world powers reach deal on Iranian nuclear program

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    The above does not in any way represent the opinions of mainstream Americans. The poster is speaking only for himself. Most of us, in fact, are embarrassed by this elitist attitude.


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    Re: BREAKING NEWS: Iran, 6 world powers reach deal on Iranian nuclear program

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Idiots and morons compare Iran to NK. Two different people. Two different cultures. Treating them in the same way is stupid.
    Wow. What a well thought-out and justified point. That's a really excellent answer, Hatuey. People who draw an uncomfortable parallel are "stupid". Really, really well done there.

  8. #368
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    Re: BREAKING NEWS: Iran, 6 world powers reach deal on Iranian nuclear program

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    The above does not in any way represent the opinions of mainstream Americans. The poster is speaking only for himself.
    Then...

    Most of us, in fact, are embarrassed by this elitist attitude.
    haha



    Every nation should feel that its contribution to global society is unique, cultural diversity is beneficial. Regarding (modern, each) military, science and economy, there's no debate - let's be real.

  9. #369
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    Re: BREAKING NEWS: Iran, 6 world powers reach deal on Iranian nuclear program

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Standard conservative answers. So what if Iran screws the pooch? In 6 months are they really going to be that much more ahead of where they are now if they deceive us? The answer is no, they won't. However, if they do deceive us, we can honestly say we gave them a shot to sit at the table with the rest of the civilized world and they screwed it up. Then, the very few countries that have supported them will have even more pressure on them to join in the sanctions (Russia and China come to mind). It's worth a friggin shot. We've being doing the status quo for the past 30 some odd years and it's gotten us nowhere.

    This is, of course, the rationale used for time immemorial to justify capitulating to tyrants. In the real world the US Administration has every interest in maintaining the appearance that their peace gambit worked for political reasons and will be unwilling to admit that their opposition was correct about Iran all along when (not if) Iran breaks the deal. The administration will carry on this charade for as long as possible claiming they brought peace when, in the end, all they have done is embolden the bloodthirsty Iranian leadership.

    All Iran is doing is using the same playbook used by North Korea during it's run up to nuclear weapons. They claim they want peace, get billions of dollars in frozen assets and aid in an agreement to stop the weapons program, and then use that money to accelerate their nuclear weapon program. Wash, rinse, repeat until the weapon is created.

    It's also the right time to do it. With us pulling out of Afghanistan, if this thing is screwed up, we won't be in Afghanistan to feel the pain of it. We'll be pulling out already. Pres Obama screws a lot of stuff up, but I don't think he screwed this one up. Let me guess, you guys would rather we just go over and turn the country into a parking lot huh?
    If this "thing is screwed up" it wouldn't be our troops in Afghanistan that would be the target. What would follow the creation of the weapon would be a systematic takeover of the middle East by Iran under threat of nuclear annihilation of the surrounding states. This has always been the goal of the Iranian leadership. We know this because this is what the Iranian leadership says it wants. They seek the reestablishment of the Caliphate.

    Finally, Iran has just as much reason to distrust us as we do them. If you guys read a little history, we were the ones who decided to meddle in their affairs way back in the 50's. All in the name of oil. So who should distrust who in this scenario?

    The reason for the Iranian uprising in the 1960s and 70s was not due to our meddling in Iran, if anything the revolution was delayed a few decades by our meddling. The Iranian Revolution was sparked by the Shah's plan to grant legal status and voting rights to minorities and women. The Ayatollah spun up a revolution in the country on the grounds that this moderation and secularism was a direct threat to Islam and that the state needed to be overthrown and replaced with a theocracy, which is what they did. It's no surprise that in the months leading up to the toppling of the SHah that the approval rating of the Shah was on the rise given the Ayatollah as the alternative. What Carter's Secretary of State did at that point borders on criminal negligence.

    I would suggest you read a good deal more history of the Iranian revolution than you appear to have done thus far. Your "meddling for oil" understanding of what happened in Iran in the 50s 60s and 70s indicate a critical absence of key details in your evaluation of the events. The Shah was supported by the US as a counter to the rising trend towards Islamic radicalism in the Iranian state. The end result of a brutal theocracy in Iran was due to bungling by the State Department under Jimmy Carter that is eerily similar to the events unfolding in Egypt and Iran today.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: US, Iran nuclear deal spurs bipartisan concern in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I'm sure they would have thought that was nice, but I don't think I would put any money I cared to ever see again on that being their primary goal.

    Their primary goal was (and is) being a nuclear state. In the post-Iraq era, that's the trump card - the regime-stability-guarantee.
    No, you're absolutely right. I meant the exact moment with the test. Yet, it didn't really have the intimidation factor that the regime had hoped for.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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