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Thread: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

  1. #61
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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    It seems to me that this train has already left the station. Women WILL be in combat roles in today's military.

    It seems to me that the questions should now move to how best to prepare and use women in combat situations.

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The think the idea that lowering standards to expand the base makes for a stronger military isn't all that bright.
    LOL.....perhaps if your idea of a military does not include intelligence.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The think the idea that lowering standards to expand the base makes for a stronger military isn't all that bright.
    Agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Young men put into war alongside women has been known to cause problems for centuries.
    Don't agree. That's a poor excuse. Obviously these young men are lacking discipline if that's the case. I can understand and wouldn't find it unusual to happen some of the time, but it should not be a widespread issue IMO. That just shows a lack of self control and perhaps people like that don't belong in the military at all anyway.

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    LOL.....perhaps if your idea of a military does not include intelligence.
    Really now, you laughed? Do you really think that lowering the standards makes for a stronger unit?

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    Educator BlackAsCoal's Avatar
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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    LOL.....perhaps if your idea of a military does not include intelligence.

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    What a bunch of junk.
    multiple combat veterans have posted the exact same thing, the exact same experience, in this forum. Thank you at least for replying in such a manner as to demonstrate the vacuity of your position.

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Don't agree. That's a poor excuse. Obviously these young men are lacking discipline if that's the case. I can understand and wouldn't find it unusual to happen some of the time, but it should not be a widespread issue IMO. That just shows a lack of self control and perhaps people like that don't belong in the military at all anyway.
    It doesn't matter if you think it's a poor excuse. It is reality. In combat ignoring reality get's you killed. Frankly, I'm not willing for any more of my friends to die so that others can pat themselves on the back about how "fair" they are being.

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    It doesn't matter if you think it's a poor excuse. It is reality. In combat ignoring reality get's you killed. Frankly, I'm not willing for any more of my friends to die so that others can pat themselves on the back about how "fair" they are being.
    I think you are wrong. It's an excuse to say that they cannot control themselves, and a terrible one at that.

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill
    Now is the part where (typically) the response is "professionalism" and my response is "reality - and in reality appealing to professionalism to paper over real problems results in more dead 18 year old kids" No thanks. I've said enough good-bye's to last me at least until I'm old enough that at least my friends are dying of old age.

    Well, maybe those 18-22 year olds need to be taught some professionalism. Either that or maybe they are just TOO young and immature to be in the military at all?


    Sure. If you want to stop hiring people for the military until they are in their late 20s early 30s, you push that. Then the military will be even less effective.

    We need young, strong, bodies whose brains are convinced they are invincible, and who are capable of carrying crushing loads immense distances before killing other human beings and then celebrating in that fact. That means 18-22 year olds. You take out that demographic, you've taken out the vast majority of the military.

    Complaining that the infantry doesn't run like your adult, professional workplace is like complaining that a frat house has more drinking than your mormon temple. It is the nature of the people in the frat house that it will be so. The "well we should just press the magical 'professionalism' button" is an attempt to paper over a real problem, which is that you are introducing sexual tension into units who cannot afford distractions. But the actual cover for that problem isn't going to be a piece of paper that says "oh, also teach them a class on how they should all be professional". We are going to actually pay that cover charge in denominations of young boys and girls screaming their guts out on a battlefield in some ****hole country. Because that is what happens when you reduce the ability of your rifle squad to operate as a single, integrated entity.


    Now, if that's the price you want us to pay for you being able to pat yourself on the back and tell yourself that at least you made everything fair? The military answers to civilian control - we'll roger up, it's what we signed the paper to do. But we at least deserve that you make that decision deliberately and recognize the tradeoff. Our lives have at least that much value.

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I think you are wrong. It's an excuse to say that they cannot control themselves, and a terrible one at that.
    It's not an excuse, it's an accurate depiction of reality. 18-22 year old men have powerful sex drives, and aren't noted by their ability to avoid being distracted by them, or their incredibly high-quality decision-making as pertains to them.

    As a matter of curiosity, given that you flatly put out that I am in fact wrong, how much time, exactly, have you spent in the Infantry? Or the deployed military at all?


    I've been in both all male units when I was in the infantry, and I've been in mixed-gender units since I moved to intel. I've seen the stupid drama that comes with taking what are basically high school kids of both genders and putting them in close, high-pressure contact but with no time to afford for mommy and daddy style adult supervision. I've seen the way that all-male units integrate better because of that, the way that the all-male units don't suffer from the distractions of the drama, have better team coordination, even learn to think as a single unit. Rifle Squads can develop corporate personalities, really. And I've seen that fall apart when women were introduced.

    The other combat veterans who has been part of an infantry unit that has seen women come out to the fob in this forum has said pretty much the exact same thing. At the least if the people who would actually know from personal direct experience say that this would put their lives in danger, and if you claim at all to support the members of the military, you at least owe us the consideration to consider the notion that perhaps know what we are talking about when we say that.
    Last edited by cpwill; 11-26-13 at 11:32 AM.

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