Page 49 of 52 FirstFirst ... 394748495051 ... LastLast
Results 481 to 490 of 519

Thread: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

  1. #481
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,444

    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Seriously, if it were going to be THAT big a problem, I'm sure the military bigwigs would be doing more to oppose this. They don't WANT to lose wars, and that's basically what you guys are saying. That allowing women into combat roles in the military, EVEN if they are physically able to compete with men on a strength basis, that they would just destroy our military. I think that is pure hyperbole. Not that there would NEVER be problems, of course there would be sometimes, but I don't think it's as grave an issue as some of you are making it out to be. Some of you just don't trust women I think.
    The CIC has replaced general officers that disagree, so you lost that argument before you started it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  2. #482
    On Vacation
    joko104's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:48 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    31,568
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    LOOOOLLL. "If women who want to be infantry have to do pullups just like the men do, our entire society will exist for the military, just like North Korea!!!"

    HYPERBOLE ALERT!



    So you're saying you've been aborted? Man, that actually makes a lot of sense now.

    Are you refusing to show proof that the infantry is no longer physical?



    Incorrect. You've stated over and over again that my views on infantry physical fitness requirements are "antiquated" and you even went on a tangent talking about how everything is done from tanks and vehicles now so it doesn't matter.
    And you're saying your a woman so know women's capabilities. You aren't very good at "hyperbole," are you?

    Are you now going to increase to size 6 letter posting and using the whole rainbow of colors? Us a lot of emotiocons too. Then you'll really be winning!

  3. #483
    Engineer

    RabidAlpaca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    American in Europe
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:03 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    14,569

    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That's not as bad as folks who have never served a day in the military saying we're wrong.
    Hey I wanted to get your opinion. Joko seems to think that us infantrymen never had a physical job. According to him, the only muscle we need to train is our trigger finger. Everything is apparently done by robots now.

    And long story short, that's why he thinks women should never be required to meet the same standards as men, because those standards are worthless. And apparently no woman could ever do 20 pullups, despite youtube disagreeing vehemently.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  4. #484
    On Vacation
    joko104's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:48 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    31,568
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Why aren't you guys raging about how physical standards are different for service members based on age? What aren't you raging that if an older service member can't meet the same standards as younger men, THEY WILL GET PEOPLE KILLED!

    Age discrimination in physical standards WILL GET PEOPLE KILLED!!!! Lower standards for older men in the military has caused huge numbers of casualties and will ultimately cause the USA to be invaded and defeated! Damn liberals!!!
    Last edited by joko104; 11-28-13 at 01:31 PM.

  5. #485
    On Vacation
    joko104's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:48 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    31,568
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Hey I wanted to get your opinion. Joko seems to think that us infantrymen never had a physical job. According to him, the only muscle we need to train is our trigger finger. Everything is apparently done by robots now.

    And long story short, that's why he thinks women should never be required to meet the same standards as men, because those standards are worthless. And apparently no woman could ever do 20 pullups, despite youtube disagreeing vehemently.
    Clearly the military had way to low reading comprehension skills. And that GETS PEOPLE KILLED! The story of the Charge of the Light Brigade. Maybe someone you know could assist you in reading what I am posting as you appear uable - or evasively unwilling - of accurately presenting it in your responses.
    Last edited by joko104; 11-28-13 at 01:31 PM.

  6. #486
    Professor
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Seen
    11-30-13 @ 07:05 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,293

    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Seriously, if it were going to be THAT big a problem, I'm sure the military bigwigs would be doing more to oppose this. They don't WANT to lose wars, and that's basically what you guys are saying. That allowing women into combat roles in the military, EVEN if they are physically able to compete with men on a strength basis, that they would just destroy our military. I think that is pure hyperbole. Not that there would NEVER be problems, of course there would be sometimes, but I don't think it's as grave an issue as some of you are making it out to be. Some of you just don't trust women I think.
    Why would you be so "sure"? Once a general pins on his second star, he's as much if not more politician than soldier. Presidents don't fire Col's.

    And finally you own up to the fact that there will be problems. Good. But do you really think it's worth lives of our soldiers because of these problems that could be completely avoided?
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

  7. #487
    Professor
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Seen
    11-30-13 @ 07:05 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,293

    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Why aren't you guys raging about how physical standards are different for service members based on age? What aren't you raging that if an older service member can't meet the same standards as younger men, THEY WILL GET PEOPLE KILLED!

    Age discrimination in physical standards WILL GET PEOPLE KILLED!!!! Lower standards for older men in the military has caused huge numbers of casualties and will ultimately cause the USA to be invaded and defeated! Damn liberals!!!
    Older soldiers are not PFC's. Older soldiers are not Platoon leaders. At that level, it's completely a young mans game for any extended time frame.

    As usual, you prove you know nothing about this game.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

  8. #488
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 02:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,107

    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    You haven't come up with any "new" information though.
    That's an interesting claim. Are you telling me that you were fully aware of the personal experiences of the multiple veterans on this forum before they told them to you?

    You yourself have stated that there just isn't enough information to go on below
    That is not correct. What I stated was that A) we have presented statistical evidence supporting those portions of our claims that can be quantified and that B) non-quantifiable measures such as team cohesion and whether or not groups fall apart into cliques aren't collected on statistically.

    Of course you realize that your own personal experiences are not necessarily (or even likely for that matter) to be a representation of the whole.
    If it was just my own personal experiences you would have a point. But you have had multiple people describe the same reality to you - and you blithely dismiss them all as nonsense based on no evidence or experience whatsoever.

    I wouldn't tell a pro-football player what being on a professional football team is like, I wouldn't tell a computer programmer what programming is like, and perhaps you should think before you try to tell infantrymen what being in the infantry is like.

    I'm glad to see you acknowledge that there are really no statistics to confirm or negate your claims
    Yeah. See that part above, in the section that you quoted, where I pointed out that in fact we had provided some statistics and you had ignored them? Yeah. That.

    so that makes this more of your own personal opinion based upon your own personal experiences as opposed to an actual FACT.
    It is a FACT that the mixed gender units have constant trouble in deployments due to the presence of sexual tension in their ranks.
    It is a FACT that this is universally understood throughout the military as any other part of our sub-culture; because it is the universal experience.
    It is a FACT that the problem in Iraq got so bad that they had to threaten to court-martial anyone who got or got anyone else pregnant, due to the losses involved.
    It is a FACT that unintended pregnancy is significantly higher in the military than in the civilian world.
    It is a FACT that females who become pregnant are non-deployable, representing a loss of combat power to the unit involved.
    It is a FACT that combat replacements are not authorized for individual losses, but only once a unit reaches a certain casualty level.
    ...and so on and so on and so on and so forth. What we have given you here are facts, not crap we made up.

    Oh... and the direct personal observation of these trends that you keep dismissing are also FACTS.

    It is a FACT that the people who are actually in a position where they would know are saying that these changes would endanger their lives. Just as it is a FACT that you thus far you have preferred to ignore or deride them than have to question your preferences.

    No? You think I'm stupid?
    No. I think you are a smart woman who is acting stupidly because she does not like the implications of the evidence of a subject about which she had a formed opinion that was built on very little basis.

    I haven't attacked anyone. If you think you've been attacked by me, you don't know me very well.
    You have accused us of lying, of being misogynists, suggested that we are faking our military experience, and dismissed our hard-won experience as "nonsense" in order to avoid having to deal with it. You have explicitly and deliberately sought to discredit the veterans who have opened up to you in this thread because you did not like what they had to say.
    Last edited by cpwill; 11-28-13 at 02:18 PM.

  9. #489
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,580

    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Why aren't you guys raging about how physical standards are different for service members based on age? What aren't you raging that if an older service member can't meet the same standards as younger men, THEY WILL GET PEOPLE KILLED!

    Age discrimination in physical standards WILL GET PEOPLE KILLED!!!! Lower standards for older men in the military has caused huge numbers of casualties and will ultimately cause the USA to be invaded and defeated! Damn liberals!!!
    Older soldiers, in order to be retained, are not left in those ground pounding front line positions; they move to support, management and training jobs or are forced out. This is true in the construction trades as well.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  10. #490
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 02:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,107

    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Seriously, if it were going to be THAT big a problem, I'm sure the military bigwigs would be doing more to oppose this.
    Why? What in the world makes you think that general officers who are selected by the President are not selected precisely for their natural inclination to put into play the administrations' policies? Every Single Administration selects their senior leadership for political reasons - from the Bush Administrations' dismissal of General Shinseki over Iraq numbers to the Obama Administrations' choice to put into place leadership who would be amenable to their preferred social changes.

    They don't WANT to lose wars, and that's basically what you guys are saying.
    No one is saying this would cause us to lose a war. We are saying it will have the same effect on the infantry that it has everywhere else; which is to reduce team cohesion, effecting military efficiency.

    That allowing women into combat roles in the military, EVEN if they are physically able to compete with men on a strength basis, that they would just destroy our military.
    Again, you are constructing hyperbolic strawmen. No one is suggesting that putting women in the infantry would destroy our military. We are saying that it would have the same effect on the infantry that it has everywhere else; which is to reduce team cohesion, effecting military efficiency.

    I think that is pure hyperbole.
    You are, technically, correct. Your misrepresentation of our position here is indeed pure hyperbole.

    Not that there would NEVER be problems, of course there would be sometimes, but I don't think it's as grave an issue as some of you are making it out to be. Some of you just don't trust women I think.
    Again, I have no problem trusting women. I've worked under and above fantastic females in the Marine Corps - and fought (successfully, I might add) to get two of them meritoriously promoted. Females that I have served with and over continue to reach out to me long after I or they have left the unit to ask my advice or to thank me for the trust and responsibility that I place in them. Literally not a month ago I plucked a female who was a Cpl out of a nowhere billet and put her in front of the current ops-o for a MEF on a daily basis. That's a position way above her nominal rank and experience and I did it because I recognized that she had the potential to develop some truly impressive competence and leadership from that experience.

    Using the "well you guys are just sexists" cop-out is no better than the "well you guys are just spouting nonsense" cop-out. You are attempting to avoid having to deal with the fact that we are actually describing reality on the ground to you, because it's implications suggest that your preferred policy has trade-offs.

Page 49 of 52 FirstFirst ... 394748495051 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •