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Thread: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

  1. #451
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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    When Joko gets pushed into a corner, he just shuts down and ignores you. I've asked him at least 7 or 8 times in this thread why he opposes equal treatment and he's refused to answer every time. He just drones on about me being sexist or something for wanting equal standards.
    I've answered that many times - I just don't think you're that big a deal to always address it to you.

    My view and it appears obviously the view now of upper military and civilian command is multiple responses.

    1. Your view of the military needs is simplistic and singular. There is not such thing as the ideal universal soldier and it foolish to think otherwise.
    2. Since men can not be women, equality is impossible. Women offer much to the military by being women - which obviously men can not bring.
    3. You maybe be the only person who thinks the military has anything to do with equality. What the hell does the military have to do with equality? Where'd you even get that idea?
    4. Your definition of "standards" is antiquated, overly simplistic and failed.
    5. The needs of the military are highly diverse not only in terms of direct military action needs, but the needs of service members in and out of service, social interaction issues, PR issues, public support issues and political support issues - all which if you were in charge you would totally ignore and - as a result - have a completely incapable military that would not be allowed to do anything anyway.

    All that I've posted before and all of it you ignored. You have the child-like simple view that the entire military and national defense issues are no more complex then pull-up and running competitions.

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I've answered that many times - I just don't think you're that big a deal to always address it to you.

    My view and it appears obviously the view now of upper military and civilian command is multiple responses.

    1. Your view of the military needs is simplistic and singular. There is not such thing as the ideal universal soldier and it foolish to think otherwise.
    2. Since men can not be women, equality is impossible. Women offer much to the military by being women - which obviously men can not bring.
    3. You maybe be the only person who thinks the military has anything to do with equality. What the hell does the military have to do with equality? Where'd you even get that idea?
    4. Your definition of "standards" is antiquated, overly simplistic and failed.
    5. The needs of the military are highly diverse not only in terms of direct military action needs, but the needs of service members in and out of service, social interaction issues, PR issues, public support issues and political support issues - all which if you were in charge you would totally ignore and - as a result - have a completely incapable military that would not be allowed to do anything anyway.

    All that I've posted before and all of it you ignored. You have the child-like simple view that the entire military and national defense issues are no more complex then pull-up and running competitions.
    1. I have never once said anything about a universal soldier. I've talked about infantrymen, which yes, I do know more about than you.
    2. Equality is possible. My wife can pass the male standards, and she's an elementary school teacher. Therefore, you're full of ****, as usual.
    3. Well the subject is gender equality. Within the same rank, soldiers are supposed to be equal. Why should one soldier have to work much harder than another simply because he's a male?
    4. Thank you for lecturing me about infantry standards, which as you've made clear, you have absolutely no idea about. Despite your claims, the infantry is extremely physical and requires top physical shape.
    5. The needs of the military ARE highly diverse. And if someone wants to be a PAC clerk, they shouldn't have to meet the same standards as infantrymen. However, if they want to be infantrymen, they should have to meet the standards of infantrymen.

    Basically it comes down to you saying over and over again that the infantry isn't a physical job and doesn't require hard physical standards. I don't know a lot about quilting, so i don't go onto internet forums and argue with quilters about it. Perhaps you should take the same advice.

    I've never once stated that physical fitness is comprised only of pullups and running competitions. There are about a million standards, physical, mental and academic that one must meet to be an effective infantrymen. For some reason you want to say "Hey women, you're far weaker than your male counterparts so you guys can sit out while they do their tests."
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    You are correct to a certain extent regarding military doctrine post ww2-we realized eyes on intelligence trumps top down leadership, especially on a microscopic basis.

    But to conclude that this means current military doctrine reflects the inflexibility of ww2, is silly. The US military arguably is better than any modern 1st world military, and at the same time is better than ANY military in the world (in any world) at anti guerilla ops. These are real and significant benefits.

    Joko, were you in the military? What high education do you hold? What recent books on doctrine and strategy have you read?
    I was not in the military. I have essentially no formal education. I have not read military books likely in the sense you have read it. I have read much of warfare history just because it's interesting, I have massive experience in fighting - though that doesn't mean a whole lot with to this, do read and what happened and happens in terms of our military in wars, and have talked with many people in various aspects of military service.

    A person saying "I was in the military so I know!" is like a person saying "I have a job so I am the authority over all private sector economic issues!" or "I work for the government and only government employees have any views of government worth anything."

    Do you disavow yourself from expressing opinions or having any insight on no topics other than what you are or were directly involved in? Often, an outside view is clearer.

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I was not in the military. I have essentially no formal education. I have not read military books likely in the sense you have read it. I have read much of warfare history just because it's interesting, I have massive experience in fighting - though that doesn't mean a whole lot with to this, do read and what happened and happens in terms of our military in wars, and have talked with many people in various aspects of military service.

    A person saying "I was in the military so I know!" is like a person saying "I have a job so I am the authority over all private sector economic issues!" or "I work for the government and only government employees have any views of government worth anything."

    Do you disavow yourself from expressing opinions or having any insight on no topics other than what you are or were directly involved in? Often, an outside view is clearer.
    Precisely why you should shut your mouth when talking to people who have actually do know what they're talking about.

    Please, by all means, back up your claim that the infantry is no longer physical. It's all done by robots now right?
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    The military can NEVER be allowed to be the final authority. The result is always disastrous and also ends up with an entire society existing for the military. The result overall is disastrous for the country. The obliteration of Japan and Germany as just two of almost countless examples. Like a military run society? N. Korea will allow any American to defect there.

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Precisely why you should shut your mouth when talking to people who have actually do know what they're talking about.

    Please, by all means, back up your claim that the infantry is no longer physical. It's all done by robots now right?
    Then you should shut your mouth from ever posting on any abortion thread again. Leave it to people with direct experience since you know nothing about it. Your message is the definition of nothingness.

    Your claim I said Infantry has "nothing" to do with being physical is just your next desperate false strawman.

    You have yet to say what war you were in combat that we won. There's a reason, isn't there?
    Last edited by joko104; 11-28-13 at 05:42 AM.

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    The military can NEVER be allowed to be the final authority. The result is always disastrous and also ends up with an entire society existing for the military. The result overall is disastrous for the country. The obliteration of Japan and Germany as just two of almost countless examples. Like a military run society? N. Korea will allow any American to defect there.
    LOOOOLLL. "If women who want to be infantry have to do pullups just like the men do, our entire society will exist for the military, just like North Korea!!!"

    HYPERBOLE ALERT!

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Then you should shut your mouth from every posting on any abortion thread again. Your message is the definition of nothingness.
    So you're saying you've been aborted? Man, that actually makes a lot of sense now.

    Are you refusing to show proof that the infantry is no longer physical?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    You have yet to say what war you were in combat that we won. There's a reason, isn't there?
    Incorrect. You've stated over and over again that my views on infantry physical fitness requirements are "antiquated" and you even went on a tangent talking about how everything is done from tanks and vehicles now so it doesn't matter.
    Last edited by RabidAlpaca; 11-28-13 at 05:43 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    You have yet to say what war you were in combat that we won. There's a reason, isn't there?
    Here, I went back and found one of your quotes because you apparently have amnesia.

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Once again, you have an antiquated view of what "combat arms" is limited to meaning. You are claiming "physical ability" is relevant to 100% of everyone in any "combat" role. AND you limit physical ability to muscularity. I'm saying it's not, because that ceased to be the only definition of "combat role" a long time ago.
    We're talking about women joining the INFANTRY. And you're saying this job no longer is physical.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    The government set out to depose the governments of Iraq, Libya and Egypt.

    Iraq cost thousands of American lives, tens of thousands of American casualties, lasted a decade, total cost ultimately will be in the trillions, and turned the American public against usage of the Infantry.

    How long and how many Infantry did it take to depose the Libyan and Egyptian government? Huh?

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Here, I went back and found one of your quotes because you apparently have amnesia.



    We're talking about women joining the INFANTRY. And you're saying this job no longer is physical.
    I never said any such thing. Read it again. I said it's not limited to physical ability in terms of muscularity.

    Nor did I say "Infantry." I said "combat role."

    If you believe the only combat role in the military is by Infantry you're WAY off base. However, I do not believe ever role in the infantry is a measure of physical strength, that is accurate of my view, yes.

    Physical ability and physical strength also are not the same thing. You keep jumping around.

    However, I suppose, the majority should have the finger strength for trigger pull. Not 100%, but probably most.
    Last edited by joko104; 11-28-13 at 05:57 AM.

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