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Thread: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    I was referring to your post #264, which was further explained by Fallen Angel in post #268 regarding the IDf's rules, which indicated that women were not allowed to serve in combat, although they were in various combat units.
    Well you are mistaken. He did not pull any of that from any of my links. That is his own made up information which he cannot back up with a link. Nowhere does it state that these women have no chance of combat, and it is specified in the article by the IDF that they are indeed members of active combat units. So what is it you are arguing about?

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    It's a completely valid argument. What you want places soldiers in unnecessary risks.
    Nonsense.

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    LOL. Ignoring what happens in the real world of a combat unit has "no substance"? LOL.
    What happens in the real world? Basically what you are saying is that it would be expected of the men and women in the unit to be having sexual relations just because of the fact that they are men and women? That is utterly ridiculous.

    This is not something that is happening all the time or even OFTEN relatively speaking, so you are full of it. MOST men and women are perfectly capable of self control in such situations. Those who cannot control themselves, should be disciplined and perhaps dishonorably discharged.

  4. #334
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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    No it is not irrelevant. Women are people and human beings with wants and desires every bit as much as men are.
    Naturally they are - no one is denying it. And if a man wanted to be in the infantry, and he was a detraction, he wouldn't have the right to demand that "that's what he wants" either. The military does not give you what you want - the military tells you to do what it needs you to do. It's not like any other job. It's not like your job. It's a dictatorship. What you want is irrelevant. If you have a decent chain of command they may try to accommodate (they don't have to, but they might) it, but the instant that your want detracts at all from unit readiness, combat efficiency, or the needs of the military, it ceases to matter.

    If a woman wants to help by contributing her time and risking her life to protect her country, then who the hell are YOU to say she cannot?
    I have no problem with women contributing their time or risking their life to protect their country - women are probably actually physically situated to make better pilots (lower center of gravity), and I've served with women (see above) who were fantastic Marines, and supremely competent at their jobs.

    But I am someone who has the experience to know that putting women in the infantry will reduce their combat effectiveness. Again, this isn't about the wants, desires, dreams, or even (within some limits) the rights of the individual. Combat is a team sport. We have, in our history, fought cultures who forgot that. Usually the kill ratios are very lopsided.

    Just because you get horny?
    No. Because the introduction of sexual tension and the drama that comes with it into the infantry is a distraction they cannot afford. Horny is pretty much a constant state of being for an 18-22 year old male on deployment. There is no "getting" sex-deprived, you just are. You are on deployment.

    Until they send out the Lioness teams. And that's when every single male Marine in a company of 190(ish) figures he has a 1/40 chance of finally getting laid, and those who think they can win (which, again, the infantry is self-selecting for aggressive, alpha-typologies, and are then trained to think that they are pretty much awesome) those odds, go for it.... distracting from the mission, ruining their focus, creating competition, creating cliques, destroying team cohesion, and degrading combat efficiency.


    It is not fair to ask men to put at risk their lives in because women want to play GI Jane. If you disagree with that relative valuation - again, we have a civilian governed military and we will do what we are told. But you at least owe us a recognition of the trade-off that you are telling us to make.

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I will offer this duty assignment, by gender, observation as proof. Your odds of dying are increased by deployment to combat zones and that deployment is now decrased/increased by your gender, thus the proof is merely that your odds of being deployed in such a dangerous combat position are increased as a male and decreased as a female. Openings for (odds of?) assignnment to REMF (support or non-combat) positions are increased for females and thereby decreased for males.

    http://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/view...working_papers
    Oh my! LOL! Now there's a round-about way of blaming women. Absolutely stunning the hoops some of you will jump through to try and prevent women from being able to serve their country.

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    What happens in the real world?
    You want to know what happens in the real world? Read back through this thread and check out the vets who have actually Been There, Done That, and seen what happens when you try this stuff in the Real World.

    Basically what you are saying is that it would be expected of the men and women in the unit to be having sexual relations just because of the fact that they are men and women? That is utterly ridiculous.
    Actually, it's what happens in the real world. We know this, because we have seen it.

    This is not something that is happening all the time or even OFTEN relatively speaking, so you are full of it.
    Like I said - 4 out of 8; and that's about typical. And (again) of the remaining 4 we still had problems with one because her husband was fooling around with other female Marines.


    MOST men and women are perfectly capable of self control in such situations.
    Yeah? What's your experience with those situations that you can make that kind of judgement?

    In case you haven't noticed, young people are not known for their ability to make the wisest of decisions when it comes to controlling and directing their sexual urges, and our society doesn't exactly encourage them to develop that ability, either.

    Those who cannot control themselves, should be disciplined and perhaps dishonorably discharged.
    do you realize that this means you are going to be kicking out huge numbers of females?

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Naturally they are - no one is denying it. And if a man wanted to be in the infantry, and he was a detraction, he wouldn't have the right to demand that "that's what he wants" either. The military does not give you what you want - the military tells you to do what it needs you to do. It's not like any other job. It's not like your job. It's a dictatorship. What you want is irrelevant. If you have a decent chain of command they may try to accommodate (they don't have to, but they might) it, but the instant that your want detracts at all from unit readiness, combat efficiency, or the needs of the military, it ceases to matter.
    A dictatorship huh? Well I guess the military has spoken. They ARE going to be accepting women, so I suppose you'd better find a way to deal with your bitter misogyny.

    I have no problem with women contributing their time or risking their life to protect their country - women are probably actually physically situated to make better pilots (lower center of gravity), and I've served with women (see above) who were fantastic Marines, and supremely competent at their jobs.

    But I am someone who has the experience to know that putting women in the infantry will reduce their combat effectiveness. Again, this isn't about the wants, desires, dreams, or even (within some limits) the rights of the individual. Combat is a team sport. We have, in our history, fought cultures who forgot that. Usually the kill ratios are very lopsided.
    If the woman can pass the physical fitness test, that is absolutely untrue. Now I suppose you'll bring up sex and pregnancy again.



    No. Because the introduction of sexual tension and the drama that comes with it into the infantry is a distraction they cannot afford. Horny is pretty much a constant state of being for an 18-22 year old male on deployment. There is no "getting" sex-deprived, you just are. You are on deployment.
    Oh surprise! There it is, earlier than I expected. Bogus. Most of them DO control themselves. Those who do not are insubordinate and not good at following orders. Apparently, they need to be purged from the dictatorship.

    Until they send out the Lioness teams. And that's when every single male Marine in a company of 190(ish) figures he has a 1/40 chance of finally getting laid, and those who think they can win (which, again, the infantry is self-selecting for aggressive, alpha-typologies, and are then trained to think that they are pretty much awesome) those odds, go for it.... distracting from the mission, ruining their focus, creating competition, creating cliques, destroying team cohesion, and degrading combat efficiency.
    Oh well. I guess those men need to grow up a little bit . . . or a LOT actually. If they cannot, then they should be discharged or otherwise disciplined.

    It is not fair to ask men to put at risk their lives in because women want to play GI Jane. If you disagree with that relative valuation - again, we have a civilian governed military and we will do what we are told. But you at least owe us a recognition of the trade-off that you are telling us to make.
    How incredibly insulting! Plenty of women take their jobs VERY seriously. Come down off your high horse.

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    You want to know what happens in the real world? Read back through this thread and check out the vets who have actually Been There, Done That, and seen what happens when you try this stuff in the Real World.



    Actually, it's what happens in the real world. We know this, because we have seen it.



    Like I said - 4 out of 8; and that's about typical. And (again) of the remaining 4 we still had problems with one because her husband was fooling around with other female Marines.




    Yeah? What's your experience with those situations that you can make that kind of judgement?

    In case you haven't noticed, young people are not known for their ability to make the wisest of decisions when it comes to controlling and directing their sexual urges, and our society doesn't exactly encourage them to develop that ability, either.



    do you realize that this means you are going to be kicking out huge numbers of females?
    4/8? Please post links. Of course, you must know that I don't believe you.

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Well you are mistaken. He did not pull any of that from any of my links. That is his own made up information which he cannot back up with a link. Nowhere does it state that these women have no chance of combat, and it is specified in the article by the IDF that they are indeed members of active combat units. So what is it you are arguing about?
    ChrisL

    Please stop spreading bs. about an army (IDF) that you know nothing about.



    EDIT: Btw just another FYI - your source isn't a representative of the IDF, it is a fan site made by ex-soldiers that try to encourage
    Jews from around the world to do service in the IDF.

    "Formed by a group of former lone soldiers (volunteers from abroad) and native Israelis, IDFinfo provides information in English (other languages to come!) through its information-service website. "

    Fallen.
    Last edited by Fallenangel; 11-27-13 at 02:02 PM.
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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    A dictatorship huh? Well I guess the military has spoken. They ARE going to be accepting women, so I suppose you'd better find a way to deal with your bitter misogyny.
    The military didn't decide on the policy.

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