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Thread: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Sorry.....our military is not dumb. You do a disservice to the men and women who wear the uniforms when you demean them like that.
    Dumbing down as in lowering the physical and academic standards in the name of political correctness.

    Giving Obama a second chance last year was a disservice to our men and women who wear the uniform.

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Today's world requires a smarter military than it did in the past. Wars are not fought the same way that they were in the 1940's and 50's. Getting rid of the lower intelligence in the military absolutely strengthens our military.
    Not exactly true Disneydude. Because of technology many MOS's and ratings have lowered their minimum scores on qualifying for many jobs.

    For example my old MOS was 0849, (Shore Fire Control Party Man) a navel gunfire spotter, comparable to an artillery forward observer.
    With only a map, compass, binoculars with mills on the lenses to determine distances using mathematical calculations in your head and a radio, I had to determine exactly where I was on a map using only a compass, had to determine the coordinates and altitude of the target and be able to determine the distance to the target and be able to spot the round and determine if the round is over, short or has to be adjusted left or right to bring it on target. Also had to come up with a compass bearing (True or Magnetic) from my position to the target.

    Back during the Vietnam war the minimum GCT for that MOS was 110. I watched over the past few decades the GCT being dumbed down to 105 then to 100 today. I asked why is that ? I was told today a NGF spotter has all of the above, map, compass, binoculars and a radio but today they also have GPS to tell them where they are. Laser range finders to determine range and distance. Laser target designators. A calculator eliminating doing mathematical calculations in your head while being shot at during a fire fight. And a radio that actually works. Today you need less in the brain housing department to get a round on target.

    On the other end in the FSCC and FCC and on the gun plot rooms aboard ships you no longer see slide rules, rulers, protractors, compass, dividers, etc. It's all can be done on a calculator, no thinking involved. You no longer have to be a mathematician.

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    It's not like any other job, Chris. When you lose a person on a deployment that reduces your combat efficiency and puts every other person in danger. It has the exact same effect on your combat power as a KIA. If WalMart loses a good manager for a couple months of maternity leave, KMart doesn't get to kill two associates, but Al-Qaeda does. This isn't like your job - in the infantry you sleep together, bathe together, train together, relax together, you're together 24 hours a day, face-to-face proximity, while people are actively trying to kill you. You stay alive when you operate seamlessly as a team, a team that is usually closer than your family. That's why I point out that individual qualifications are irrelevant except inasmuch as they speak to your ability to help the team operate as a team. I'd rather have a mediocre machine gunner who was great at building morale among his fellows than an uber-competent Rambo who introduced tensions into the group any day of the week. Because the first guy doesn't detract from our ability to operate as a team.



    Because A) it reduces combat power, thereby putting other peoples' lives at risk and B) it marks a breakdown in good order and discipline, which the military requires in order to keep from turning into an armed mob.
    I missed your link to where a .308 fired by a woman has less muzzle velocity than a .308 fired by a woman. Please post it.

    If not, you got nothing but YOUR claim that Marines are uncontrollable, testosterone driven lose cannons incapable of following the hierarchy of command and who will gang rape any woman they come across.

    You aren't the only person who despises the Marines, as that is what it really boils down to.

    And unless you served in combat with women, all your talk about a your knowledge is actually non-existence.

    Yes, they claimed that white soldiers would never follow black officers too. And they were just as wrong. The USA did just fine under an African-American head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Training of Marines overall needs to change from EVERY former Marine I've known. The question is NOT just how a Marine performs in the military, but how they conduct themselves when they leave the Marines and enter civilian society.

    The level of derogatory sexism and often outright misogyny is high and destructive - to both the former Marine and his wife and children. They marry extremely submissive women - for which her lack of power allows the former Marine father to treat his children as privates in his personal little army. Their marriages and families tend to be disasters.

    A job of a soldier is to follow the hierarchy of rank for orders. Any person incapable of doing so should not be enlisted. If enlisted and refuses to follow the hierarchy of command, regardless of the race or gender of the higher ranking officer, should minimally be dishonorably discharged.

    It is not only a question of whether or not no women are worthy of being a Marine - which on it's face is an absurd question. There also is the effects of the extreme efforts to convince Marines they are testosterone invincible warriors who should by virtue of being male then dominate women because they are more powerful - believing "power" is measured in physical strength, which has little to no relevancy in civilian life after service and can be very destructive to the Marine and all he interacts with, particularly his own nuclear family. The question is not just about Marines in the Marines, but Marines after their enlistment is over.

    The same OMG! IT WILL DESTROY THE MILITARY! has been declared in relation to minorities. Been declared in relation to non-citizens in service. Been declared in relation to gays. And now declared in relation to women. It's always a bunch of counter productive BS.
    Last edited by joko104; 11-26-13 at 03:24 PM.

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I missed your link to where a .308 fired by a woman has less muzzle velocity than a .308 fired by a woman. Please post it.

    If not, you got nothing but YOUR claim that Marines are uncontrollable, testosterone driven lose cannons incapable of following the hierarchy of command and who will gang rape any woman they come across.

    You aren't the only person who despises the Marines, as that is what it really boils down to.

    And unless you served in combat with women, all your talk about a your knowledge is actually non-existence.

    Yes, they claimed that white soldiers would never follow black officers too. And they were just as wrong. The USA did just fine under an African-American head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
    If you bother to read the posts you are responding to then you will note that A: Your arguments are strawmen and B: In fact I have served in combat with women.

    ...But you don't. Because actual learning would hinder your ability to hold your position in this thread .

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    All militaries historically face the problem of old dogs in the military having intense opposition to change.

    The German's so easily overran France because their military leaders - in their 70s and 80s - not only planned for another WWI trench warfare, but even tried to address the German invasion with WWI tactics during the invasion.

    The US military is no exception. The extreme resistance to semi-automatic weapons. Resistance to the relevancy of air power. Resistance to the relevancy of aircraft carriers. The resistance to the increasing cost inefficient of battleships. Resistance to racial integration. Resistance to allowing non-citizens in combat. The Japanese army learned that bravado doesn't win battles, it gets troops killed en mass and loses the battle. How many decades before the military accepted that swords are no longer worth what their weight then prohibited in the alternative? It will never end.

    ANY TIME the military faces potential change, the old dogs throw up every obstacle they can dream up.

    In this debate, the old dogs are claiming that wars of the future will still be fought in unarmed hand to hand combat and the army that can march on foot and carry the heaviest packs the longest distance quickest wins. Wars of the future are mostly going to be won by who can best play video games and understands electronics.

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    If you bother to read the posts you are responding to then you will note that A: Your arguments are strawmen and B: In fact I have served in combat with women.

    ...But you don't. Because actual learning would hinder your ability to hold your position in this thread .
    Well excuse me. What battle was it the USA lost because there were women in combat?

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Well excuse me. What battle was it the USA lost because there were women in combat?
    Another strawman? No one has suggested that the presence of women in combat will cause the US to lose major battles. We are saying that they will detract from the ability of combat units such as the infantry to function as a single integrated team, reducing their combat efficiency and resulting in increased casualties.

    All militaries historically face the problem of old dogs in the military having intense opposition to change.
    I'm 30. Feel free to poll the other veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan on this forum who have all told ya'll the exact same thing based on direct, personal experience.
    Last edited by cpwill; 11-26-13 at 03:50 PM.

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Training of Marines overall needs to change from EVERY former Marine I've known. The question is NOT just how a Marine performs in the military, but how they conduct themselves when they leave the Marines and enter civilian society.

    The level of derogatory sexism and often outright misogyny is high and destructive - to both the former Marine and his wife and children. They marry extremely submissive women - for which her lack of power allows the former Marine father to treat his children as privates in his personal little army. Their marriages and families tend to be disasters.

    A job of a soldier is to follow the hierarchy of rank for orders. Any person incapable of doing so should not be enlisted. If enlisted and refuses to follow the hierarchy of command, regardless of the race or gender of the higher ranking officer, should minimally be dishonorably discharged.

    It is not only a question of whether or not no women are worthy of being a Marine - which on it's face is an absurd question. There also is the effects of the extreme efforts to convince Marines they are testosterone invincible warriors who should by virtue of being male then dominate women because they are more powerful - believing "power" is measured in physical strength, which has little to no relevancy in civilian life after service and can be very destructive to the Marine and all he interacts with, particularly his own nuclear family. The question is not just about Marines in the Marines, but Marines after their enlistment is over.

    The same OMG! IT WILL DESTROY THE MILITARY! has been declared in relation to minorities. Been declared in relation to non-citizens in service. Been declared in relation to gays. And now declared in relation to women. It's always a bunch of counter productive BS.
    APPLAUSE

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    Re: Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAsCoal View Post
    APPLAUSE


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