• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Senate approves nuclear option

I think we need to remember this current move only applies to non SCOTUS judicial nominees (not legislation), I don't think even Reid will be eager to extend the end to filibuster any farther than this, knowing the shoe will someday be on the other foot. As has been mentioned this move is largely so they can pack the DC court unopposed and while they still have the window to get it done. I think they fear what may be coming in 2014.
 
cpgrad08 said:
It will come back to hunt them. When there is a Republican President and Republican Majority in the Senate. The Dems will be powerless to stop their Appointments. Also if there is a Dem president and Rep. Senate. The Dems will be powerless to stop the Reps from shooting down all his Appts.
Click to expand...

I disagree...the filibuster isn't possible any longer. It was fine when it was used under special circumstances. A President leaving trying to confirm a large number of individuals before he leaves or when side feels VERY strongly about a nominee but the system has broken down. Dems in the Senate made their decision. They would prefer to actually get some nominations when in charge then get none and chance a rule change if they behave the same way as Republicans. Sorry...the truth is Republicans broke the filibuster.
 
iliveonramen said:
I disagree...the filibuster isn't possible any longer. It was fine when it was used under special circumstances. A President leaving trying to confirm a large number of individuals before he leaves or when side feels VERY strongly about a nominee but the system has broken down. Dems in the Senate made their decision. They would prefer to actually get some nominations when in charge then get none and chance a rule change if they behave the same way as Republicans. Sorry...the truth is Republicans broke the filibuster.
Click to expand...

And you think that when the Democrats are a minority again this won't comeback to hunt them since they will have no weapons to fight with remember Dems. filibustered President Bush's nominations.
 
Misterveritis said:
But all of us will be affected. After the courts are stacked we will have no recourse to the machinations of the two million busybody bureaucrats who will harass, harry, and hound the citizens. EPA and Interior will be the worst offenders.
Click to expand...

No problem, just let the republicans gain control of the senate while keeping the house and invoke the Senator Harry Reid option and they can do away with the EPA and Interior with just 51 votes in the senate. This may be the best thing the republicans could have hoped for is used right.
 
iliveonramen said:
I disagree...the filibuster isn't possible any longer. It was fine when it was used under special circumstances. A President leaving trying to confirm a large number of individuals before he leaves or when side feels VERY strongly about a nominee but the system has broken down. Dems in the Senate made their decision. They would prefer to actually get some nominations when in charge then get none and chance a rule change if they behave the same way as Republicans. Sorry...the truth is Republicans broke the filibuster.
Click to expand...

Again, you can keep throwing out this lie but it doesn't make it true. The increase in "filibuster" cloture votes (there have been no actual filibusters during Obama's presidency) is ONLY because of Harry Reid's insane habit of calling for a cloture vote on everything. This isn't up for debate, Reid called 90% of his cloture votes when the votes would not have resulted in a filibuster. He called cloture votes at nearly 3 times the average with an actually serious threat of filibuster happening at a lower rate than any prior senate.

You have allowed a petty, destructive little man poison your brain with the simplest of political parlor tricks.

Let's talk numbers for the ignorant left. Let's compare the current Senate (113th) which is the worst year for Obama nominees with a 81% cloture success to the 108th Senate under Republican.

Care to guess what percentage of Bush nominees made it through the Senate in that Senate session? 15%. FIFTEEN PERCENT.
 
Last edited:
eohrnberger said:
Yeah, I can see that. Wildly swinging pendulum with ever increasing speeds and extremes whipsawing back and forth.
Not sure that's really the best thing for the country.
Click to expand...

What most people don't realize the filibuster added a bit of stability to our system. It prevented this wild swings. Now that the cat is out of the bag with this nuclear option that can be used by any and all majority leaders, they might as well go ahead and do away with the filibuster completely. An example of would could happen is Obamacare was passed during President Obama and a Democratic majority in the senate. Come 2017, if the GOP wins the white house and take control of the the senate, they can repeal Obamacare by just 51 votes and there is nothing the Democrats can do about it but offer the Republican "CONGRATULATIONS." After all it was the Democrats that let this monster loose.
 
Perotista said:
What most people don't realize the filibuster added a bit of stability to our system. It prevented this wild swings. Now that the cat is out of the bag with this nuclear option that can be used by any and all majority leaders, they might as well go ahead and do away with the filibuster completely. An example of would could happen is Obamacare was passed during President Obama and a Democratic majority in the senate. Come 2017, if the GOP wins the white house and take control of the the senate, they can repeal Obamacare by just 51 votes and there is nothing the Democrats can do about it but offer the Republican "CONGRATULATIONS." After all it was the Democrats that let this monster loose.
Click to expand...


gmc11375120131122070100.jpg



Pretty much says it all.....and Reid's thinking. No mistaking where he stands now.
 
Mithros said:
I think it's safe to say that the current filibuster is effectively dead. But I don't think you can lay that on Reid for better or worse.

I like the filibuster, and think that minority rights are an important part of the Senate. But the filibuster has been broken.

The bottom line is that the minority party had become obstructionist just to be obstructionist. How can anyone rationally defend holding up a nominee for almost two years; especially when that nominee received 90+ confirmation votes with zero objections? Neither party is going to get a super-majority any time soon. The only way for the senate to function moving forward was for something to happen.

IMO, the senate needs to settle on a nuclear proof filibuster that is *MUCH* harder to use. Bring back the mandatory speaking part of the filibuster. If you want to stop the senate from functioning, you should have to get up and tell us why.
Click to expand...

I hear you. I think the misuse of the filibuster along with tabling all bills from the house became tit for tat. It is the current leaders in the senate, Reid and McConnell that caused this to happen. Both IMO put their party way above the needs and good of the nation. This would have never occurred when we had Daschle and Lott as leaders of the senate or Dole and Mitchell for way back when Robert Byrd and Howard Baker were the majority and minority leaders. Those leaders knew how to talk to each other, how to work things out with each other, they were willing to compromise, to give and take, to work to move legislation and nominees along. None of them would have thought about bringing up the nuclear option and certainly none would have used it.

If we had two different leaders in the senate, perhaps an Alexander and a Leahey or you pick them, this would have never happened. it is said politics is the art of the possible. With Reid and McConnell and their attitude of I want 100% or nothing, I want to stop your party cold and give your party the time of day, I do not want you to succeed at anything, I guess this was bound to happen. It is the leaders of the senate that caused this, not the arcane or old rules. They worked just fine and protected the minority party rights, but the leaders have to be willing to work together or as you have seen, you will get nuked.
 
The result will become increasing radicalization of federal courts - radically to the left appointees if a Democrat president and senate and radically to the right appointees if a Republican president and senate.
 
upsideguy said:
Nice fantasy. The problem is if the ACA exists in 2016 (and, by some miracle against all odds, the Reps can actually win the white house), the ACA will be firmly entrenched and not repeal-able. In fact, you can't really repeal now. You would have to come with something that would protect those that already depend on it (those with pre-existing conditions, for example).
Click to expand...

It is repealable. In fact if and this is a big if, if it looks like the 7 democratic senators from red states like they will lose their seats, it does now for 4 of them. They will join a couple of other conservative democrats like Manchin calling for it repeal early next year to mid summer. When it comes to politicians getting re-elected and self preservation is number one. Me, I will just wait and see what happens. Rumors are already afloat about this.
 
pbrauer said:
There should be no reason to require 60+ votes for a Presidential nomination. NONE. Finally Harry Reid had the balls to tell the Republicans to stick it where the sun doesn't shine.
Click to expand...
Would you have said that when the democrats were holding up republican nominees?
 
MMC said:
gmc11375120131122070100.jpg



Pretty much says it all.....and Reid's thinking. No mistaking where he stands now.
Click to expand...

Senator Harry Reid will go down in history as one of the most famous or infamous senators in history. I think McCain said it correctly, "When the Majority can change the rules when ever they want, you have no rules." Yep, take off the boxing gloves. Any type or form of stability from one administration to another has been tossed out the window. But this is what Senator Reid and his fellow democrats wanted.
 
Perotista said:
It is repealable. In fact if and this is a big if, if it looks like the 7 democratic senators from red states like they will lose their seats, it does now for 4 of them. They will join a couple of other conservative democrats like Manchin calling for it repeal early next year to mid summer. When it comes to politicians getting re-elected and self preservation is number one. Me, I will just wait and see what happens. Rumors are already afloat about this.
Click to expand...

They knew they were in trouble all along Pero.....3 years awaiting this rollout and it is a disaster. Site even went down with just 500 users. There was no preparation and getting it all set up. Now the Democrats just completely divided a lot of Bi partisian-ship legislation that was being worked on together, with this little stunt.

This Nuclear Option will work against them come election time. Polls are starting to go over 85% on repeal and start over. Now that more and more of it fails and they can't keep reaching their numbers. It is the Democrats that will be seen as covering up and then looking to go around the people and the Constitution. Plus lets not forget it will come back around full circle at the end of 2015 going into the presidential election.
 
democrat hypocrisy:

 
Perotista said:
What most people don't realize the filibuster added a bit of stability to our system. It prevented this wild swings. Now that the cat is out of the bag with this nuclear option that can be used by any and all majority leaders, they might as well go ahead and do away with the filibuster completely. An example of would could happen is Obamacare was passed during President Obama and a Democratic majority in the senate. Come 2017, if the GOP wins the white house and take control of the the senate, they can repeal Obamacare by just 51 votes and there is nothing the Democrats can do about it but offer the Republican "CONGRATULATIONS." After all it was the Democrats that let this monster loose.
Click to expand...
Well if the Republicans win the WH in 2016, there is a strong chance they themselves would do away the filibuster themselves so they could repeal Obamacare.
 
MMC said:
They knew they were in trouble all along Pero.....3 years awaiting this rollout and it is a disaster. Site even went down with just 500 users. There was no preparation and getting it all set up. Now the Democrats just completely divided a lot of Bi partisian-ship legislation that was being worked on together, with this little stunt.

This Nuclear Option will work against them come election time. Polls are starting to go over 85% on repeal and start over. Now that more and more of it fails and they can't keep reaching their numbers. It is the Democrats that will be seen as covering up and then looking to go around the people and the Constitution. Plus lets not forget it will come back around full circle at the end of 2015 going into the presidential election.
Click to expand...

Be careful what you wish for. Court packing can trump many state as well as federal laws. Gun rights (individual may keep and bear arms) is all but gone and SSM (strong personal sexual desire) will soon become a new civil right - all thanks to judges. The new wave of judicial review seems to be whatever is "progressive" is what the constitution really meant to say.
 
pbrauer said:
Well if the Republicans win the WH in 2016, there is a strong chance they themselves would do away the filibuster themselves so they could repeal Obamacare.
Click to expand...

President Paul Ryan really won't be a dirty trickster, which is why he will be President Paul Ryan and not Ding Dong The Witch is Gone Clinton
 
pbrauer said:
Well if the Republicans win the WH in 2016, there is a strong chance they themselves would do away the filibuster themselves so they could repeal Obamacare.
Click to expand...

They wouldn't need to have the presidency. Repeal doesn't have to be signed by the POTUS so her/his affiliation doesn't matter here. Filibuster (that still exists for legislation btw) won't be effective if the reps have both houses of congress.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Be careful what you wish for. Court packing can trump many state as well as federal laws. Gun rights (individual may keep and bear arms) is all but gone and SSM (strong personal sexual desire) will soon become a new civil right - all thanks to judges. The new wave of judicial review seems to be whatever is "progressive" is what the constitution really meant to say.
Click to expand...

I figure the Republicans will use whatever stall tactics they can.....in the meantime. They don't have to give any ground over anything significant. McConnell has sounded off on the issue too.
 
Fisher said:
President Paul Ryan really won't be a dirty trickster, which is why he will be President Paul Ryan and not Ding Dong The Witch is Gone Clinton
Click to expand...

I would be surprised if they didn't do just that (provided they took the Senate). If you don't believe when they ascend to the White House (and Senate) they would use the "electoral mandate" against their political opponents, well, you're pretty innocent. How are we framing the Obamacare issue right now? It's already about the majority of the American people being against it, and those darn Democrats that didn't negotiate with the other half of the country to make the bill sensible. What would happen? Those darn Democrats are once again standing against the majority of the American people by filibustering our platform and our attempts to repeal Obamacare.
 
MMC said:
They knew they were in trouble all along Pero.....3 years awaiting this rollout and it is a disaster. Site even went down with just 500 users. There was no preparation and getting it all set up. Now the Democrats just completely divided a lot of Bi partisian-ship legislation that was being worked on together, with this little stunt.

This Nuclear Option will work against them come election time. Polls are starting to go over 85% on repeal and start over. Now that more and more of it fails and they can't keep reaching their numbers. It is the Democrats that will be seen as covering up and then looking to go around the people and the Constitution. Plus lets not forget it will come back around full circle at the end of 2015 going into the presidential election.
Click to expand...

That is awful high, 85%. CBS News has the ACA approval at 31% and disapproval at 61%. Fox News has 46% in favor of total repeal and start anew while 42% are saying it needs a complete overhaul. Only 10% are saying keep it as is.

here is some figures on different senate races to contemplate, in places where one wouldn't expect.

Michigan Democrat Peters lead republican Land by 1 point 37-36
Colorado Democrat Udall leads Republican Buck by 3 points 45-42 two weeks ago udall's lead was 15 points
Michigan and Colorado should be two safe states that the democrats shouldn't have to worry about.
Then there is:
Montana Republican up by 17
North Carolina Democrat Hagan leads by 2 points, two weeks ago she lead by 17
Arkansas Republican Cotton leads Democrat Pryor by 1 point 37-36
West Virginia Republican Capito leads democrat Tennant by 14 50-36
New Hampshire Democrat Shaheen leads republican Brown by 4 points 48-44
South Dakota Republican Rounds leads Democrat Weiland by 14, 52-38

I know that there is a long, long time to go, but the democrats are in trouble and in some places one would have never thought. I wonder if they might have been in much more trouble without the Repubican shutdown. I think that shutdown the GOP shot themselves in the foot. But thanks to the ACA, they have recovered nicely.
 
Last edited:
pbrauer said:
Well if the Republicans win the WH in 2016, there is a strong chance they themselves would do away the filibuster themselves so they could repeal Obamacare.
Click to expand...

I have no doubt about it now since Reid used it first. If they do you can thank Senator Reid as he dropped the first bomb. Send you congratulation telegram to the RNC and info Senator Harry Reid on it when they do. I think they might as well now just do completely away with the filibuster rule, it means nothing when the majority party can just suspend it or end as they see fit. Why put up with the charade now. Both parties are or should be aware of this. No need to keep it on the books, it is meaningless as Harry Reid proved yesterday. Do away with it. Minorities need no protection what so ever and this country needs no stability between wild swings to the left and then to the right and back again.
 
I am posting this again because it deserves attention in order to silence to defiantly ignorant Democrat supporters. Here is a comparison of Nomination cloture votes of the 108th Senate (Republican controlled) to the 113th Senate (Democrat Controlled). Which one shows a minority party being obstructionist?

113 Congress:

F= Failed Cloture, W= Withdrawn due to Unanimous consent (passed), I= Invoked (passed), V=Vitiated (Erroneous submission, etc.), N= No Vote, vebal consent (passed)

14-Nov PN529 Nominee Robert Leon Wilkins Reid 18-Nov 53 - 38 No. 235 F
7-Nov PN528 Nominee Cornelia T. L. Pillard Reid 12-Nov 56 - 41 No. 233 F
28-Oct PN527 Nominee Patricia Ann Millett Reid 31-Oct 55 - 38 No. 227 F
28-Oct PN408 Nominee Melvin L. Watt Reid 31-Oct 56 - 42 No. 226 F
28-Oct PN41 Nominee Jacob J. Lew Reid 30-Oct UC W
28-Oct PN412 Nominee Thomas Edgar Wheeler Reid 29-Oct no vote N
28-Oct PN509 Nominee Katherine Archuleta Reid 30-Oct 81 - 18 No. 224 I
28-Oct PN36 Nominee Alan F. Estevez Reid 30-Oct 91 - 8 No. 223 I
16-Oct PN789 Nominee Richard F. Griffin Reid 29-Oct 62 - 37 No. 221 I
29-Jul PN554 Nominee Samantha Power Reid 30-Jul UC W
29-Jul PN120 Nominee Byron Todd Jones Reid 31-Jul 60 - 40 No. 196 I
25-Jul PN266 Nominee Mark Gaston Pearce Reid 30-Jul 69 - 29 No. 193 I
25-Jul PN680 Nominee Nancy Jean Schiffer Reid 30-Jul 65 - 33 No. 191 I
25-Jul PN679 Nominee Kent Yoshiho Hirozawa Reid 30-Jul 64 - 34 No. 189 I
25-Jul PN586 Nominee James B. Comey, Jr Reid 29-Jul UC W
11-Jul PN192 Nominee Regina McCarthy Reid 18-Jul 69 - 31 No. 179 I
11-Jul PN205 Nominee Thomas Edward Perez Reid 17-Jul 60 - 40 No. 177 I
11-Jul PN239 Nominee Fred P. Hochberg Reid 17-Jul 82 - 18 No. 175 I
11-Jul PN266 Nominee Mark Gaston Pearce Reid 16-Jul UC W
11-Jul PN159 Nominee Sharon Block Reid 16-Jul UC W
11-Jul PN158 Nominee Richard F. Griffin Reid 16-Jul UC W
11-Jul PN157 Nominee Richard Cordray Reid 16-Jul 71 - 29 No. 173 I
21-May PN6 Nominee Srikanth Srinivasan Reid 23-May UC W
6-Mar PN48 Nominee John Owen Brennan Durbin 7-Mar 81 - 16 No. 31 I
4-Mar PN2 Nominee Caitlin Joan Halligan Reid 6-Mar 51 - 41 No. 30 F
13-Feb PN34 Nominee Charles Timothy Hagel Reid 26-Feb 71 - 27* No. 23 I

That if 5 Cloture Failures out of 26

Now let's look at the 108th Senate, shall we?

12-Nov PN8 Judicial nominee Carolyn B. Kuhl Frist 12-Nov 53 - 43 No. 451 F
28-Oct PN12 Judicial nominee Charles W. Pickering, Sr. McConnell 30-Oct 54 - 43 No. 419 F
21-Jul PN9 Judicial nominee David W. McKeague Frist 22-Jul 53 - 44 No. 162 F
20-Jul PN14 Judicial nominee Henry W. Saad Frist 22-Jul 52 - 46 No. 160 F
12-Nov PN839 Judicial nominee Janice R. Brown Frist 12-Nov 53 - 43 No. 452 F
4-Mar PN6 Judicial nominee Miguel A. Estrada Frist 6-Mar 55 - 44 No. 40 F
29-Apr PN11 Judicial nominee Priscilla R. Owen McConnell 1-May 52 - 44 No. 137 F
21-Jul PN7 Judicial nominee Richard A. Griffin Frist 22-Jul 54 - 44 No. 161 F
16-Jul PN658 Judicial nominee William G. Myers Frist 20-Jul 53 - 44 No. 158 F
4-Nov PN512 Judicial nominee William H. Pryor, Jr. Santorum 6-Nov 51 - 43 No. 441 F
4-Mar PN2 Nominee Caitlin Joan Halligan Reid 6-Mar 51 - 41 No. 30 F
7-Nov PN528 Nominee Cornelia T. L. Pillard Reid 12-Nov 56 - 41 No. 233 F
28-Oct PN408 Nominee Melvin L. Watt Reid 31-Oct 56 - 42 No. 226 F
28-Oct PN527 Nominee Patricia Ann Millett Reid 31-Oct 55 - 38 No. 227 F
14-Nov PN529 Nominee Robert Leon Wilkins Reid 18-Nov 53 - 38 No. 235 F
12-Nov PN141 Nominee Thomas C. Dorr Frist 18-Nov 57 - 39 No. 455 F
28-Oct PN36 Nominee Alan F. Estevez Reid 30-Oct 91 - 8 No. 223 I
29-Jul PN120 Nominee Byron Todd Jones Reid 31-Jul 60 - 40 No. 196 I
13-Feb PN34 Nominee Charles Timothy Hagel Reid 26-Feb 71 - 27* No. 23 I
11-Jul PN239 Nominee Fred P. Hochberg Reid 17-Jul 82 - 18 No. 175 I
6-Mar PN48 Nominee John Owen Brennan Durbin 7-Mar 81 - 16 No. 31 I
28-Oct PN509 Nominee Katherine Archuleta Reid 30-Oct 81 - 18 No. 224 I
25-Jul PN679 Nominee Kent Yoshiho Hirozawa Reid 30-Jul 64 - 34 No. 189 I
25-Jul PN266 Nominee Mark Gaston Pearce Reid 30-Jul 69 - 29 No. 193 I
25-Jul PN680 Nominee Nancy Jean Schiffer Reid 30-Jul 65 - 33 No. 191 I
11-Jul PN192 Nominee Regina McCarthy Reid 18-Jul 69 - 31 No. 179 I
11-Jul PN157 Nominee Richard Cordray Reid 16-Jul 71 - 29 No. 173 I
16-Oct PN789 Nominee Richard F. Griffin Reid 29-Oct 62 - 37 No. 221 I
11-Jul PN205 Nominee Thomas Edward Perez Reid 17-Jul 60 - 40 No. 177 I
28-Oct PN412 Nominee Thomas Edgar Wheeler Reid 29-Oct no vote N
27-Jun PN38 Judicial nominee Victor J. Wolski Frist 8-Jul UC V
23-Oct PN884 Nominee Michael O. Leavitt McConnell 27-Oct UC V
28-Oct PN41 Nominee Jacob J. Lew Reid 30-Oct UC W
25-Jul PN586 Nominee James B. Comey, Jr Reid 29-Jul UC W
29-Jul PN554 Nominee Samantha Power Reid 30-Jul UC W
11-Jul PN159 Nominee Sharon Block Reid 16-Jul UC W
21-May PN6 Nominee Srikanth Srinivasan Reid 23-May UC W


That is 16 Failed Cloture votes out of 37, or 43% of all nominees. I removed all of the repeated cloture failures for certain nominees. The Democrats blocked Estrada on 7 separate cloture votes.

So which party is obstructionist again?
 
jmotivator said:
I am posting this again because it deserves attention in order to silence to defiantly ignorant Democrat supporters. Here is a comparison of Nomination cloture votes of the 108th Senate (Republican controlled) to the 113th Senate (Democrat Controlled). Which one shows a minority party being obstructionist?.....
113 Congress:[...]
So which party is obstructionist again?
Click to expand...

Rhetorical question: are all the properties on a Monopoly board of the same value??

GOP Completes Mass Filibuster Of Three Top Obama Judges

Senate Republicans on Monday sustained a filibuster of a third consecutive nominee to the second most powerful federal court, putting Democrats in a bind between surrendering on a high priority and threatening to reform the filibuster with the "nuclear option."


A procedural vote to advance the nomination of Robert Wilkins to the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals received 53 votes (short of the 60 needed) and 38 votes against. It was the GOP's third filibuster in three weeks -- they also blocked Patricia Millett and Nina Pillard to the same court, without taking issue with any of their qualifications.

[...]​
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom