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Thread: Senate approves nuclear option

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Rejecting cloture is only one way, and my comment was in the broader scope of supporting obstruction in the face of 51% tyranny. I don't care whether there is a filibuster or not. I care that the minority has a say.
    Here is, what I think is an excellent summation by Michael Doran of the Brookings Institution (certainly no conservative).....

    "On the nuclear question specifically, I don't see this as stage one. In my view, there will never be a final agreement. What the administration just initiated was, rather, a long and expensive process by which the West pays Iran to refrain from going nuclear. We are, in essence, paying Ayatollah Khamenei to negotiate with us. We just bought six months. What was the price?
    We shredded the six United Nations Security Council resolutions that ordered the Islamic Republic to abandon all enrichment and reprocessing activities. We exposed fractures in the coalition against Iran. And we started building a global economic lobby that is dedicated to eroding the sanctions that we have generated through a decade of hard, very hard, diplomatic work.
    That's the price that we can see clearly before our eyes. But I also wonder whether there were hidden costs -- in the form of quiet commitments to Iran by third parties. I assume that the Iranians demanded economic compensation for every concession that they made. Will all of the promised payments appear in the text of the agreement? Did parties less constrained than our president by US congressional oversight also offer up sweeteners on the margins? At this point we do not know whether there is, in effect, a secret annex to the deal. Only time will tell.
    But a hidden cost that is more easily verified is the free hand that the United States is now giving to Iran throughout the region. This is the price that troubles me most.
    That pretty much nails it. We are abandoning the region while Iran's hegemonistic designs expand. And it's even worse than that:
    The nuclear deal will further subject the Arab world to the tender mercies of the Revolutionary Guards. Iran will now have more money -- our money -- to channel to proxies such as Hezbollah. Washington cannot expose the mailed fist of the Qods Force without endangering the nuclear rapprochement, so it has a positive incentive to ignore all Iranian subversion and intimidation in the region.
    Whether he realizes it, Obama has now announced that the United States cannot be relied upon to stand up to Iran. Therefore, Israel and our Arab allies will be forced to live by their wits. Some actors, like the Saudis, will prosecute their proxy war with Iran with renewed vehemence. Others will simply hedge. They will make a beeline to Tehran, just as many regional actors began showing up in Moscow after the Syrian chemical weapons deal. American influence will further deteriorate.
    That, in sum, is the true price that we just paid for six months of seeming quiet on the nuclear front. It is price in prestige, which most Americans will not notice. It is also a price in blood. But it is not our blood, so Americans will also fail to make the connection between the violence and the nuclear deal. It is important to note, however, that this is just the initial price. Six months from now, when the interim agreement expires, another payment to Ayatollah Khamenei will come due. If Obama doesn't pony up, he will have to admit then that he cut a bad deal now. So he we will indeed pay -- through the nose.
    Iran is already celebrating what they see as confirmation of their right to enrich uranium. Kerry says that isn't true. In six months, who do you think is going to be proved right?

    Blog: 'The Hidden Cost of the Iranian Nuclear Deal'
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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    I think you might be confusing nuclear options.

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Actually my comments was in direct response to only a part of his commentary.



    Rejecting cloture is only one way, and my comment was in the broader scope of supporting obstruction in the face of 51% tyranny. I don't care whether there is a filibuster or not. I care that the minority has a say.
    Never fear. The minority party will still have a voice in the Senate. People listen to too much Conservative talk radio and take everything said there on blind faith. Do yourself a favor: Go to Senate.gov, click on the "Rules" link and learn for yourself whether cloture or the filibuster will limit normal order in the Senate. I bet what you'll find is that the only thing that's changed is how presidential nominations short of nominations to the SC are handled.

    The minority party in the Senate will still get to have their say.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Never fear. The minority party will still have a voice in the Senate. People listen to too much Conservative talk radio and take everything said there on blind faith. Do yourself a favor: Go to Senate.gov, click on the "Rules" link and learn for yourself whether cloture or the filibuster will limit normal order in the Senate. I bet what you'll find is that the only thing that's changed is how presidential nominations short of nominations to the SC are handled.

    The minority party in the Senate will still get to have their say.
    When I said voice, I mean they have a hand in crafting legislation, in approving nominations, in deciding the priorities of congress. Senate Republicans represent 31 different states, yet they have little representation in policies of the country. And the same goes for Democrats in the House.

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Here is, what I think is an excellent summation by Michael Doran of the Brookings Institution (certainly no conservative).....
    Uh... Wrong "nuclear option." This thread is about removing some of the filibuster rules, not Iran developing nukes.

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    When I said voice, I mean they have a hand in crafting legislation, in approving nominations, in deciding the priorities of congress. Senate Republicans represent 31 different states, yet they have little representation in policies of the country. And the same goes for Democrats in the House.
    I know exactly what you meant and my position on the matter is unchanged. The minority party in the Senate will still have a voice. They will continue to have a stake in shaping laws that will ultimately govern this nation. Their voices will continue to be heard. They will still get a vote through normal order same as always.

    Nonetheless, my comment about "stop listening to Conservative talk radio" and taking what they say as the "be-all/end-all" was directed at yourself and all others who take what they have to say as gospel. (I hold the same view for those who listen exclusively to liberal talk radio as well.) Because all you're hearing is "their" slant () on the storyline which in all likelihood is only half the story (if that!). You really want to know the truth of the matter? Go figure it out yourself! Not saying you can't discover a hint of truism in what these so-called "entertainment authorities" have to say, but if you really want to discern fact from fiction, go do your own homework and think for yourself!

    And that's my worth...climbing down off my ...
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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I know exactly what you meant and my position on the matter is unchanged. The minority party in the Senate will still have a voice. They will continue to have a stake in shaping laws that will ultimately govern this nation. Their voices will continue to be heard. They will still get a vote through normal order same as always.

    Nonetheless, my comment about "stop listening to Conservative talk radio" and taking what they say as the "be-all/end-all" was directed at yourself and all others who take what they have to say as gospel. (I hold the same view for those who listen exclusively to liberal talk radio as well.) Because all you're hearing is "their" slant (n on the storyline which in all likelihood is only half the story (if that!). You really want to know the truth of the matter? Go figure it out yourself! Not saying you can't discover a hint of truism in what these so-called "entertainment authorities" have to say, but if you really want to discern fact from fiction, go do your own homework and think for yourself!

    And that's my :nts: worth...climbing down off my :
    But they don't have a voice. So how can they still have one? They will still get to lose every vote?

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    For example, what legislation have the democrats allowed on the floor that Republicans support, who have proposed over 2000 bills? Here is what the Senate has considered this year.

    Hurricane Sandy Funding
    Violence Against Women Act
    Raising the Debt Limit
    Sequester Replacement
    Continuing Funding Resolution
    Budget
    Gun Control
    Internet Sales Tax
    Infrastructure Spending
    Farm Bill
    Student Loan Interest Rate
    Immigration Reform
    HUD funding

    Nothing in there is Republican priorities, even though they represent 31 states and 100 million citizens, theoretically.

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    Uh... Wrong "nuclear option." This thread is about removing some of the filibuster rules, not Iran developing nukes.

    Ooops...Wrong thread....

    Carry on!
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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Those hypocrites. See how they like it when the GOP regain the majority in the Senate.

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