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Thread: Senate approves nuclear option

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    And you think that when the Democrats are a minority again this won't comeback to hunt them since they will have no weapons to fight with remember Dems. filibustered President Bush's nominations.
    No...I actually don't think it will. I think outside of parties it's ridiculous that Presidents are having problems nominating Executive branch positions. It's also ridiculous that there's so many unappointed positions out there.

    So either A)...Dems obstruct a Republican President as much as Republicans have. We basically leave tons of empty seats in the courts. Nobody wins.
    B)....Dems allow Republicans to obstruct until they gain the majority and a President then play along and don't obstruct. Rep win
    C)...either party with a majority in the senate and a President can appoint whoever they want. Both "win"

    I'm not sure how anything other than this ends with the Dems in a better position.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    It will come back to hunt them. When there is a Republican President and Republican Majority in the Senate. The Dems will be powerless to stop their Appointments. Also if there is a Dem president and Rep. Senate. The Dems will be powerless to stop the Reps from shooting down all his Appts.
    Thats fine. Then Dems will shoot down all of a Republican Presidents appointments. This whole situation is a result of Republican actions. The Dems are reacting
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    No...I actually don't think it will. I think outside of parties it's ridiculous that Presidents are having problems nominating Executive branch positions. It's also ridiculous that there's so many unappointed positions out there.

    So either A)...Dems obstruct a Republican President as much as Republicans have. We basically leave tons of empty seats in the courts. Nobody wins.
    B)....Dems allow Republicans to obstruct until they gain the majority and a President then play along and don't obstruct. Rep win
    C)...either party with a majority in the senate and a President can appoint whoever they want. Both "win"

    I'm not sure how anything other than this ends with the Dems in a better position.
    Maybe not, but this is going to do them damage....What a loser Harry Reid is....But, hey, you libs are trashing everything else that has to do with the founding, and set up of this country, so why not this 225 year old precedent as well...?
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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Sure...because Unanimous Consent to debate isn't possible. I'm not sure how you come to a conclusion that a Senate minority party that has actually filibustered as many appointments than almost every Senate minority in the history of the filibuster is playing along and allowing Unanimous Consent.




    There is a pretty large difference between a Presidents last year in office an right after he was re-elected. That's called cherry picking my friend.
    So long as the majority is not allowing the minority to be represented, this is what they will continue to get. And they should get. This country is a representative democracy where all opinions are supposed to be represented, not just the majority.

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    No...I actually don't think it will. I think outside of parties it's ridiculous that Presidents are having problems nominating Executive branch positions. It's also ridiculous that there's so many unappointed positions out there.

    So either A)...Dems obstruct a Republican President as much as Republicans have. We basically leave tons of empty seats in the courts. Nobody wins.
    B)....Dems allow Republicans to obstruct until they gain the majority and a President then play along and don't obstruct. Rep win
    C)...either party with a majority in the senate and a President can appoint whoever they want. Both "win"

    I'm not sure how anything other than this ends with the Dems in a better position.
    How many? They've confirmed 1600 positions so far.

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Maybe not, but this is going to do them damage....What a loser Harry Reid is....But, hey, you libs are trashing everything else that has to do with the founding, and set up of this country, so why not this 225 year old precedent as well...?
    Yeah...requiring a Super Majority was debated during the Constitutional Convention. It was shot down except in specific situations mentioned in the Constitution. The requiring of 2/3rds a majority is undemocratic and against the views of the founders.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    So long as the majority is not allowing the minority to be represented, this is what they will continue to get. And they should get. This country is a representative democracy where all opinions are supposed to be represented, not just the majority.
    Republicans control the House. The structure of government and the Supreme Court is how minority rights are protected not some archaic parliamentary procedure created by chance in the 1800's.

    I'm curious...do you think they should reinstate the filibuster into the House?
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    How many? They've confirmed 1600 positions so far.
    Every open position. That's kind of how it works. A new President comes in and appoints the heads of agencies in the Executive branch to carry out his agenda.

    When openings pop up in the judicial branch he appoints people to fill the positions.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    This country is a representative democracy where all opinions are supposed to be represented, not just the majority.
    Yes, the right (and the left) always support the minority when its something THEY want, but then cry about tyranny from the minority when it is something they don't like.

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Yeah...requiring a Super Majority was debated during the Constitutional Convention. It was shot down except in specific situations mentioned in the Constitution. The requiring of 2/3rds a majority is undemocratic and against the views of the founders.
    You simply don't know what you are talking about....

    "The biggest loser, however, will not be Democrats or Republicans, but the American constitutional system. Like several other parts of the Obama administration’s political program, the filibuster’s end sacrifices unique constitutional and political features of the American government for short-term political gain. Worried about minority rights, the Framers designed a Constitution that imposed a difficult, hazardous path before any government action could be taken. Legislation had to be able to run the gauntlet of the popular House, the state-chosen Senate, and the nationally elected president, before braving federalism’s limited enumeration on federal powers. “Hence a double security arises to the rights of the people,” James Madison explained in Federalist 51. “The different governments will control each other, at the same time that each will be controlled by itself.”

    Under the Framers’ design, domestic action could flow only from high levels of political consensus built upon long and careful deliberation. It forced the political parties to compromise — if President Bush had truly wanted Estrada on the courts, he should have traded political favors with Senate Democrats. Though ever frustrating to those who demand immediate reform or unchecked majority rule, the filibuster rule bolstered these unique features of the American Constitution. They imparted a stability to government and a resistance to sudden impulses that spared the United States the trials and tribulations of Europe, where parliamentary government has often led to wild swings of policy. As political sociologist Louis Hartz observed long ago, there is a reason why the United States never suffered the evils of socialism or Communism.

    Democrats, however, have little difficulty trading constitutional stability for short-term political advantage. The filibuster’s end falls in line with President Obama’s refusal to fulfill his constitutional duty to faithfully execute the laws, merely to avoid the radioactive political fallout from his signature health-care law or dictate his preferred immigration reforms. It fits neatly Obamacare’s erasure of the limits on the powers of the federal government over interstate commerce, spending, and taxation, and with the president’s political browbeating of the Supreme Court for the assist. But these political victories, evanescent as they will be, will do permanent harm to the American political and constitutional system, which may well remain the longest-lasting legacy of Mr. Obama and his Democratic allies in the Senate."

    Reid's Filibuster Power Play Is a Blow to American Constitutional System | National Review Online
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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