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Thread: Senate approves nuclear option

  1. #691
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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    what the Republican party could do right now is everything that Reid brings up for a vote is use the filibuster rules still in place for all other legislation, to make the left work real hard to pass anymore legislation....
    They're pretty much already doing this.


    It may force ole Harry to invoke another nuclear option or force Obama to reach for his pen quite frequently to sign another Executive Order bypassing Congress altogether. Both tactics showing abuse of powers.
    No, they aren't.

    Reid cannot arbitrarily change the Senate rules; it requires a vote. The President can only act within the confines of laws already passed; issuing executive orders is part of what the executive branch does.

    That said, since you are so deeply concerned about these alleged abuses, if the Republicans get a majority in the Senate, will you push them to restore the filibuster rules?

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Well.....maybe the next Republican President can remove any appointed by Obama, that's what I would do.
    The only way to remove a judicial appointment is via impeachment. FYI, Jefferson tried to root out a whole bunch of Federalist judges that way, and it didn't fly.

    It's also perfectly normal for an incoming president to replace department heads, as he sees fit.


    This is another reason why Judges should be elected.....and there should be no lifetime appointments.
    Electing judges is a terrible idea. The purpose of appointments is not only to remove judges from short-term political gain (by a step, at least), it's to ensure they can go against the other branches without fear that they'll lose their jobs.


    Moreover......life should be made difficult for any of them over 65. Wherein they should be psychologically evaluated every 3 years. check out those mental faculties, memory, and their medical.
    Uh huh. You do realize this would mean that (for example) Obama would be able to pack the Supreme Court, yes?

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    If anything it will be expanded and at sometime in the future the whole filibuster thing will be wiped out and done away with.
    Or, get it permanently restored to talking filibusters. We can only hope.


    The senate has just completed their transformation from being a body intended to represent the states to just another House of Representatives...
    Uh huh. Did you not notice how the filibuster has no Constitutional basis? How its use has dramatically escalated? How Senators have been directly elected for decades?

    And yet again: The Constitution stipulates that the Senate is supposed to decide based on a simple majority, not a supermajority, with a handful of exceptions. This is taking a step towards the original intent of the Senate, not away from it.


    I wonder how much longer the electoral college will stand
    We can only dream of eliminating that obsolete appendage of the colonial era.


    we are moving pretty quickly to becoming more of a direct democracy instead of a republic. Where 50% plus one will rule and have total say over the 50% minus one.
    Uh, yeah, "elected representatives passing legislature with a simple majority" is not, by definition, a "direct democracy."

    The US will probably get a little more democratic in some respects. But I see little indication that we're going to have national referendums on a regular basis.

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    The only way to remove a judicial appointment is via impeachment. FYI, Jefferson tried to root out a whole bunch of Federalist judges that way, and it didn't fly.

    It's also perfectly normal for an incoming president to replace department heads, as he sees fit.



    Electing judges is a terrible idea. The purpose of appointments is not only to remove judges from short-term political gain (by a step, at least), it's to ensure they can go against the other branches without fear that they'll lose their jobs.



    Uh huh. You do realize this would mean that (for example) Obama would be able to pack the Supreme Court, yes?
    Yeah they can replace department heads. But there should be a requirement that they have some background in that position.

    Prime example would be Susan Rice being Put at the Head of the NSA and the Physical Security of this country.

    I didn't see it that way.....as if they are classified as bi-polar, or have dementia, and or ALS. I would think that would remove quite a bit of those liberal and progressive judges from the bench. Especially all those Bi-polar and ADD ones.

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    More info as to why Sen. Reid pulled the nuclear option trigger can be found in this memo. It's why I said in my post #647 the more people learn why this happened and the parameters around this rule change, the more it will begin to make sense. Again, contrary to what's being reported the filibuster has NOT been removed; it can still be used during normal order. It just can't be used to stymie nominations for presidential appointments or nominations to the lower courts.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    You do realize this would mean that (for example) Obama would be able to pack the Supreme Court, yes?
    No, he cannot. You've been listening to too much talk radio my friend.

    The rule change does NOT apply to Supreme Court nominations. Read the memo I linked to above to learn more.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Stop sounding like a defeatist and get busy changing minds!
    I have been trying to change peoples minds since I first started campaigning for Perot back in 1992.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    Some of them understand what you are getting at. But the truth holds no value to the Democrat lie. So they will keep on repeating the lies the leadership of the Democrat party keeps telling.
    True. By another obstructionist metric. As of 02/23/10, but the list is probably longer now.
    1) H.R. 12, Paycheck Fairness Act
    2) H.R. 20, Melanie Blocker Stokes Mom’s Opportunity to Access Health, Education, Research, and Support for Postpartum Depression Act
    3) H.R. 22, U.S. Postal Service Financial Relief Act
    4) H.R. 23, Belated Thank You to the Merchant Mariners of World War II Act
    5) H.R. 24, Redesignating Department of Navy as Department of Navy and Marine Corps
    6) H.R. 31, Lumbee Recognition Act
    7) H.R. 35, Presidential Records Act Amendments
    8) H.R. 36, Presidential Library Donation Reform Act
    9) H.R. 44, Guam World War II Loyalty Recognition Act
    10) H.R. 46, Family Self Sufficiency Act
    11) H.R. 80, Captive Primate Safety Act
    12) H.R. 81, Shark Conservation Act
    13) H.R. 86, Regarding California Coastal National Monument
    14) H.R. 118, Regarding Morristown National Historical Park
    15) H.R. 129, Conveying Certain National Forest System Lands in Los Padres National Forest in California
    16) H.R. 151, Daniel Webster Congressional Clerkship Act
    17) H.R. 174, Establishing a national cemetery for veterans in the southern Colorado region
    18) H.R. 310, HALE Scouts Act
    19) H.R. 320, CJ’s Home Protection Act
    20) H.R. 325, Avra/Black Wash Reclamation and Riparian Restoration Project
    21) H.R. 326, Cocopah Lands Act
    22) H.R. 347, Congressional Gold Medal for 100th Infantry Battalion in World War II
    23) H.R. 388, Crane Conservation Act
    24) H.R. 403, Homes for Heroes Act
    25) H.R. 409, Conveying Land to the Las Vegas Motor Speedway
    26) H.R. 411, Great Cats and Rare Canids Act
    27) H.R. 445, Heavy Duty Hybrid Vehicle Research, Development and Demonstration Act
    28) H.R. 448, Elder Abuse Victims Act
    29) H.R. 466, Wounded Veteran Job Security Act
    30) H.R. 469, Produced Water Utilization Act
    31) H.R. 479, Wakefield Act
    32) H.R. 509, Marine Turtle Conservation Reauthorization Act
    33) H.R. 515, Radioactive Import Deterrence Act
    34) H.R. 548, Civil War Battlefield Preservation Act
    35) H.R. 549, National Bombing Prevention Act
    36) H.R. 553, Reducing Over-Classification Act
    37) H.R. 554, National Nanotechnology Initiative Amendments Act
    38) H.R. 556, Southern Sea Otter Recovery and Research Act
    39) H.R. 559, Fair, Accurate, Secure and Timely Redress Act
    40) H.R. 577, Vision Care for Kids Act
    41) H.R. 601, Box Elder Utah Land Conveyance Act
    42) H.R. 603, Utah National Guard Readiness Act
    43) H.R. 626, Federal Employees Paid Parental Leave Act
    44) H.R. 628, Encouraging enhancement of expertise in patent cases among district judges
    45) H.R. 631, Water Use Efficiency and Conservation Research Act
    46) H.R. 632, Encouraging Silver Alert Plans
    47) H.R. 637, South Orange County Recycled Water Enhancement Act
    48) H.R. 685, United States Civil Rights Trail Special Resource Study Act
    49) H.R. 729, Phylicia’s Law
    50) H.R. 738, Death in Custody Reporting Act
    51) H.R. 748, CAMPUS Safety Act
    52) H.R. 749, Technical Amendment to Federal Election Campaign Act
    53) H.R. 756, National Pain Care Policy Act
    54) H.R. 762, Validating a final patent number
    55) H.R. 780, Student Internet Safety Act
    56) H.R. 842, Naming R. Jess Brown U.S. Courthouse in Jackson, Mississippi
    57) H.R. 844, Marine Mammal Rescue Assistance Amendments
    58) H.R. 860, Coral Reef Conservation Act Reauthorization
    59) H.R. 869, Naming Scott Reed Federal Building and U.S. Courthouse in Lexington, Kentucky
    60) H.R. 885, Improved Financial and Commodity Markets Oversight and Accountability Act
    61) H.R. 887, Naming James A. Leach U.S. Courthouse in Davenport, Iowa
    62) H.R. 905, Thunder Bay National Marine Sanctuary and Underwater Preserve Boundary Modification Act
    63) H.R. 908, Missing Alzheimer’s Disease Patient Alert Program Reauthorization
    64) H.R. 911, Stop Child Abuse in Residential Programs for Teens Act
    65) H.R. 934, Conveying certain submerged lands to Commonwealth of Mariana Islands
    66) H.R. 940, Conveyance of certain National Forest System land in Louisiana
    67) H.R. 946, Plain Writing Act
    68) H.R. 957, Green Energy Education Act
    69) H.R. 959, Officer Daniel Faulkner Children of Fallen Heroes Scholarship Act
    70) H.R. 965, Chesapeake Bay Gateways and Watertrails Network Continuing Authorization Act
    71) H.R. 985, Free Flow of Information Act
    72) H.R. 1002, Pisgah National Forest Boundary Adjustment Act
    73) H.R. 1017, Chiropractic Care Available to All Veterans Act
    74) H.R. 1018, Restore Our American Mustangs Act
    75) H.R. 1029, Alien Smuggling and Terrorism Prevention Act
    76) H.R. 1043, Deafy Glade Land Exchange Act
    77) H.R. 1044, Port Chicago Naval Magazine
    78) H.R. 1053, Chesapeake Bay Accountability and Recovery Act
    79) H.R. 1061, Hoh Indian Tribe Safe Homelands Act
    80) H.R. 1065, White Mountain Apache Tribe Water Rights Quantification Act
    81) H.R. 1080, Illegal, Unreported, and Unregulated Fishing Enforcement Act
    82) H.R. 1084, CALM Act
    83) H.R. 1088, Mandatory Veteran Specialist Training Act
    84) H.R. 1089, Veterans Employment Rights Realignment Act
    85) H.R. 1107, Relating to certain public contracts
    86) H.R. 1110, PHONE Act
    87) H.R. 1120, Central Texas Water Recycling Act
    88) H.R. 1129, Authorizing iron working training program for Native Americans
    89) H.R. 1139, COPS Improvements Act
    90) H.R. 1145, National Water Research and Development Initiative Act
    91) H.R. 1147, Local Community Radio Act
    92) H.R. 1168, Veterans Retraining Act
    93) H.R. 1170, New Assistive Technologies for Specially Adapted Housing
    94) H.R. 1171, Homeless Veterans Reintegration Program Reauthorization
    95) H.R. 1172, Requiring List on VA Website of Organizations Providing Scholarships for Veterans
    96) H.R. 1177, 5-Star Generals Commemorative Coin Act
    97) H.R. 1178, Requiring a study on the use of Civil Air Patrol personnel and resources to support homeland security missions
    98) H.R. 1216, Naming Lance Corporal Matthew P. Pathenos Post Office in Chesterfield, Missouri
    99) H.R. 1217, Naming Specialist Peter J. Navarro Post Office in Ballwin, Missouri
    100) H.R. 1218, Naming Lance Corporal Drew W. Weaver Post Office in Saint Charles, Missouri
    372 Bills That Have Been Passed by the House & Not Yet

    Seems to me that the house IS trying to govern, and the Senate Democrats are refusing to do so.

  9. #699
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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    Or, get it permanently restored to talking filibusters. We can only hope.



    Uh huh. Did you not notice how the filibuster has no Constitutional basis? How its use has dramatically escalated? How Senators have been directly elected for decades?

    And yet again: The Constitution stipulates that the Senate is supposed to decide based on a simple majority, not a supermajority, with a handful of exceptions. This is taking a step towards the original intent of the Senate, not away from it.



    We can only dream of eliminating that obsolete appendage of the colonial era.



    Uh, yeah, "elected representatives passing legislature with a simple majority" is not, by definition, a "direct democracy."

    The US will probably get a little more democratic in some respects. But I see little indication that we're going to have national referendums on a regular basis.
    the constitution simply states the senate can make its own rules, specifying a simple majority is not in it. The filibuster has been around since 1806 until the 21st of Nov this year. But speaking of doing away with the electoral college, I think it would take a constitutional amendment to do that. The electors and the procedures for the electoral college is in Article II. But you're right, it is old and states now which were once very important are nothing else than lines drawn on a map.

    Perhaps it is time to just let each political party do exactly what they want to do, it is that way anyway. After all no one can fight city hall or this immensely huge bureaucracy. No one said life was fair and politics certainly isn't. Time to just fade away I suppose.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    I think it's safe to say that the current filibuster is effectively dead. But I don't think you can lay that on Reid for better or worse.

    I like the filibuster, and think that minority rights are an important part of the Senate. But the filibuster has been broken.

    The bottom line is that the minority party had become obstructionist just to be obstructionist. How can anyone rationally defend holding up a nominee for almost two years; especially when that nominee received 90+ confirmation votes with zero objections? Neither party is going to get a super-majority any time soon. The only way for the senate to function moving forward was for something to happen.

    IMO, the senate needs to settle on a nuclear proof filibuster that is *MUCH* harder to use. Bring back the mandatory speaking part of the filibuster. If you want to stop the senate from functioning, you should have to get up and tell us why.
    You defend it by saying the majority got 99% of they want. What has the minority gotten? They theoretically represent 45% of the country, but because the majority represents 55%, the only things that get done is what 55% want? What about the rest of us? And that's why the minority has to use whatever leverage they have.

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