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Thread: Senate approves nuclear option

  1. #631
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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    I'm as much an old fogie as anyone else here. Maybe that gives me courage, since I can conveniently die if things don't work out so well. Ha!

    There are plenty of safeties built into the system. The SCOTUS is a perfect example. Some of our SCOTUS fogies have dementia or worse but they will sit there until they die. So, particularly in the present era where we have an extreme(ly) balanced court, some things can only be taken so far.

    With the exception of Robertsons complete surprise vote, I probably could call 98% of the rulings in advance. Most of them neutralize each other. For each crazy rightie, there is an equally crazy lefti. In those 98% cases, if they all went to the moon and Kennedy was the only one on Earth, you'd simply have to peek inside his head. Before him, Sandra Day was the only justice who made an effort to do the correct thing without being totally mesmerized by their own political party.

    So, with that in mind, isn't it time to get the show on the road? Lets be run by the left or the right - just let it run and let us see who accomplishes (not promises) more. How much more time do we need to waste on the 2nd amendment? You can have this but you can't have that. This barrel is too long, this is too short. Good grief. Nobody can take guns away. They can just dick around with technicalities.

    See, I heard Obama singing about his shovel ready jobs and the only jobs that were created were printers jobs at the mint. Has our infrastructure healed itself in the 5 years of this boast. **** no. Why? How can you explain why in a recession nobody actually created these jobs and did this desperately needed work? Was it because Obama was just making empty promises or was it Republican lack of cooperation? Don't even try to answer that question - it's rhetorical. We can never actually know. If it was all Obama all day all night, we'd be saying "wow, you were a big, fat liar - you're fired" or "like wow man, Obama is totally frosty". Now, it's just a giant shrug.

    I don't usually advocate fixing things that work. But I do want to see things that badly need fixing being fixed and there is just too much excuse potential on the plate.

    Now, we'll find out. Maybe too late this time but we might make better decisions in the future.
    I highly doubt about the better decisions. That is unless you are talking about me, I know I make pretty darn good ones, just ask me. I don't know, I was up in arms yesterday and today I just don't know. The strange thing is I have always believed the president should get who he wants. People he trusts to be around him and to run the departments, agencies etc. Judges since they serve a life time instead of just at the discreation of the president is another matter.

    I think I would have been bothered or up in arms as was the case yesterday if this was just for the presidents political appointments. They come and go, judges stay forever or until they die. I still have to do some deep thinking on that. I still don't like that portion. But as you stated, we do have some wackos on the SCOTUS. So it probably doesn't matter. But I am having a real difficult time convincing myself of that.

    But if we are going to do away with the filibuster for judical and presidential appointments, let's just do away with it for everything and let the chips fall where they may. There, I just reversed course on your highway.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  2. #632
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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    I highly doubt about the better decisions. That is unless you are talking about me, I know I make pretty darn good ones, just ask me. I don't know, I was up in arms yesterday and today I just don't know. The strange thing is I have always believed the president should get who he wants. People he trusts to be around him and to run the departments, agencies etc. Judges since they serve a life time instead of just at the discreation of the president is another matter.

    I think I would have been bothered or up in arms as was the case yesterday if this was just for the presidents political appointments. They come and go, judges stay forever or until they die. I still have to do some deep thinking on that. I still don't like that portion. But as you stated, we do have some wackos on the SCOTUS. So it probably doesn't matter. But I am having a real difficult time convincing myself of that.

    But if we are going to do away with the filibuster for judical and presidential appointments, let's just do away with it for everything and let the chips fall where they may. There, I just reversed course on your highway.
    Maybe it's just a lack of patience on my part. I'm pretty logical and certainly would be a better President than any of them that actually got the job.

    I also know that Obama is a scary leftist. But dammit, we elected him, let him run the damn thing and if he screws it up, lets stop re-electing these turkeys.

  3. #633
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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    I don't mind rudness, if I did I wouldn't be on this site. I said I don't like it, I have always understood the reasons behind it. There is a difference, but as old as I am, I am steeped in tradition. I have become use to and respect tradition. Now if this happened before the session began when the rules governing the body are suppose to be proposed, changed etc. I probably would have thought much about it. This change Reid pulled was like having two teams playing a pick up basketball game agree to the rules they would be playing under only to have the team who also owned the basketball, change the rules half way through the game to suit their purpose.

    When members of the senate meet at the beginning of a session they established the rules for that entire session. To change the rules during a session the rule stated it would require 67 votes, not 51. But it is what it is. Just goes to show you one can't trust politicians. As if I didn't know that all ready.
    At the beginning of the session, there weren't the problems there are now. Apparently there are pressing reasons for a mid-session change of the rules now. Were the Repubs caught by surprise on this? Since this is only supposed to affect judges at this time, and since the lack of judges has been an ongoing complaint by Obama for a long time, it makes me wonder what legal challenges are expected by this administration that necessitated the nuclear option so suddenly!

    Greetings, Pero.

  4. #634
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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Maybe it's just a lack of patience on my part. I'm pretty logical and certainly would be a better President than any of them that actually got the job.

    I also know that Obama is a scary leftist. But dammit, we elected him, let him run the damn thing and if he screws it up, lets stop re-electing these turkeys.
    I consider the president left of center. Now if we had a parliment instead of congress what you say would be pretty plain. I am confident that the house will remain in GOP hands for the next three years so doing away with the filibuster really doesn't matter until after 2016. That is except for judicial appointments. But I guess that is one of the perks of the job. Heck, why not. We get the government we deserve and as long as we continue to elect the same folks and the same parties that have caused all of our problems in the first place, we ain't going to get anything better. I guess it is quite simple.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  5. #635
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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    At the beginning of the session, there weren't the problems there are now. Apparently there are pressing reasons for a mid-session change of the rules now. Were the Repubs caught by surprise on this? Since this is only supposed to affect judges at this time, and since the lack of judges has been an ongoing complaint by Obama for a long time, it makes me wonder what legal challenges are expected by this administration that necessitated the nuclear option so suddenly!

    Greetings, Pero.
    It was an ongoing complaint with the Bush administraton too and with Clinton and keep on going back. It is my understand this change, 51 votes effects judicial and all presidential nominations. That is political appointments. The political appointments don't both me, I said before the president should have the people around him he wants and trusts. It is the judges that I have my beef with. But what the heck, most judges these days are activists anyway. They don't have the faintest idea what original intent is.

    I don't know about the Republicans being caught by surprise, Reid theaten this many times, he just pulled the string yesterday. It is all political any how. I think the GOP wanted to filibuster all these judges until after next years election when they hoped to take control of the senate. Then they could have voted no to them denying them a place on the bench. I suppose both sides are equally responsible, but I still don't like it.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  6. #636
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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    It was an ongoing complaint with the Bush administraton too and with Clinton and keep on going back. It is my understand this change, 51 votes effects judicial and all presidential nominations. That is political appointments. The political appointments don't both me, I said before the president should have the people around him he wants and trusts. It is the judges that I have my beef with. But what the heck, most judges these days are activists anyway. They don't have the faintest idea what original intent is.

    I don't know about the Republicans being caught by surprise, Reid theaten this many times, he just pulled the string yesterday. It is all political any how. I think the GOP wanted to filibuster all these judges until after next years election when they hoped to take control of the senate. Then they could have voted no to them denying them a place on the bench. I suppose both sides are equally responsible, but I still don't like it.
    The problem is that those making the changes don't care what we think!

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    The problem is that those making the changes don't care what we think!
    The constitution give the house and the senate the ability and authority to make their own rules. What ever they are is strictly up to them, not us.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    The constitution give the house and the senate the ability and authority to make their own rules. What ever they are is strictly up to them, not us.
    : And done in a bipartisan manner, it rarely caused the problems we are seeing now. The mood of the entire country is changing, and not for the better.

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    : And done in a bipartisan manner, it rarely caused the problems we are seeing now. The mood of the entire country is changing, and not for the better.
    Yeah, into hard left and hard right camps with the majority of Americans in the middle. The problem is the hard right and the hard left pick the candidates they want those of us in the middle to choose from. Dang shame we can't have a middle party. I sick and tired of the Republicans and Democrats.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Yeah, into hard left and hard right camps with the majority of Americans in the middle. The problem is the hard right and the hard left pick the candidates they want those of us in the middle to choose from. Dang shame we can't have a middle party. I sick and tired of the Republicans and Democrats.
    : No wonder people are turning off, and tuning out!

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