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Thread: Senate approves nuclear option

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    A little something I noticed:

    1) House changes it's rules on a bill so that a Senate bill that was passed could only come to the floor through the Speaker of the House. That move ensured the shutdown of the government. Had the bill been allowed to come to a vote, it would have passed, and no government shutdown would have happened.

    End result - Democrats scream bloody murder. Republicans strongly support the move.

    2) Senate changes it's rules so that cloture on a filibuster of a nominee can be invoked with only 51 votes.

    End result - Republicans scream bloody murder. Democrats strongly support the move.

    What does this tell me? That Republicans and Democrats are both hypocrites. It's evil unless THEY are the ones doing it. LOL.
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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    So much for protect minority rights, perhaps the dems only protect minority rights when it suits them to do so. We are moving closer and closer to rule by the majority and a direct democracy. Where 50% plus 1 vote can have their way over the other 50% less 1 vote. I am disappointed, but not surprised or shocked. This is just another precedence set by a Democrat that those very same Democrats will come back hollering at the top of their lungs when in the majority, the Republicans return the favor.

    Bask in the glory is all I can say, because what goes around will come around. I would say as of today the Republican's have a 50-50 shot at gaining control of the Senate in 2014. It looks like Montana, West Virginia, South Dakota and Arkansas will change from Dem to Rep, then 2 of 3 of the following states, NC, AK and LA would give them control. These last three are in the toss up column today whereas the other 4 are in the lean Rep column. Interesting, I wonder how loud you will holler when the GOP uses Reid's precedence when they gain control? I fully expect you to support them in the same manner you are supporting Reid today. To do otherwise would be hypercritical and just show one is playing petty politics.

    In reality, this single vote doesn't bother me that much. I am just fearful of what will follow. I can see such things happening in the future if the GOP were to win the presidency in 2016 and gained the control of the senate of repealing the ACA by simple majority vote, by repealing the highest tax bracket by simple majority vote, by repealing any democratic legislation they don't like by simple majority vote. The precedence has been set.
    I myself am opposed to filibuster at all. That's nowhere near becoming a direct democracy. I think these parties have political ideologies that they should put into practice. If their ideas don't work, they get voted out. Instead we have ideologies of the majority party bastardized as much as possible so that nothing really works well.

    Ideally however, I say remove the filibuster from the senate, and turn the house into a parliament. Then as a a parliament you have several parties involved and the largest party, more often than not, will have to work with and strike deals with minority parties to move anything forward.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    GOP hyperpartisans do, which you are not or whatever..
    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    HUH? That was an unnaturally huge leap. don't know how you came up with that...
    After being out for a few, my thoughts go to the GOP conference of GOVs, headed by Christie..
    I am reminded of Gov. Walker yesterday supporting Christie as a Conservative..
    I see the GOP Govs taking notes on this filibuster event, discussing how to avoid it with a DEM Senate in 2017 .
    Physics is Phun

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    When Sen. McConnell quipped to have an up or down vote in 2005, DEMs fixed the problem in 2013..
    Dems did not filibuster Alito or Thomas to death, though Kerry tried on Alito but no filibuster vote given..
    Alito approved 58-42..Thomas approved 52-48, an insult as the lowest ever..
    Sen. Grassley threatened a Scalia on Dems, who was confirmed 98-0..My how times have changed..
    Imagine if Obama gets another SCOTUS Justice..All Hell will break loose .
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    I myself am opposed to filibuster at all. That's nowhere near becoming a direct democracy. I think these parties have political ideologies that they should put into practice. If their ideas don't work, they get voted out. Instead we have ideologies of the majority party bastardized as much as possible so that nothing really works well.

    Ideally however, I say remove the filibuster from the senate, and turn the house into a parliament. Then as a a parliament you have several parties involved and the largest party, more often than not, will have to work with and strike deals with minority parties to move anything forward.
    Last edited by NIMBY; 11-22-13 at 12:17 AM.
    Physics is Phun

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    This move is well overdue, and doesn't go far enough.

    The essence of the legislature is not to throw so much sand in the gears that a minority -- of any party -- can halt an administration in its tracks. It's unacceptable, no matter who's doing it.

    Good riddance to bad Senate rules.

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    I myself am opposed to filibuster at all. That's nowhere near becoming a direct democracy. I think these parties have political ideologies that they should put into practice. If their ideas don't work, they get voted out. Instead we have ideologies of the majority party bastardized as much as possible so that nothing really works well.

    Ideally however, I say remove the filibuster from the senate, and turn the house into a parliament. Then as a a parliament you have several parties involved and the largest party, more often than not, will have to work with and strike deals with minority parties to move anything forward.
    You know that isn't a bad idea. Parliament I mean. I have always been on the side of the filibuster. The senate was designed to slow things down and not jump into something on the spur of the moment. Besides protecting minority rights, what the filibuster does is stop wild swings in government from the left and the right. We could for instances have one party without the filibuster who controls the presidency and both chambers of congress push through all shall we say extreme left wing ideas. Then in the next election if the other party won both chambers and the presidency, that party could repeal everything the first party accomplished and then push through their extreme right wing ideas and so on and so on. If used right, the filibuster gives the minority party some wiggle room even if the other party controls congress and the presidency. It should bring about some compromise between the two parties to get things passed. But today atmosphere in Washington is so toxic, that isn't going to happen. I blame both Reid and McConnell for that. Each is highly partisian and puts the good of their parties way above the nation and certainly governing. Each wants to win 100% of the time, each does not want to cede one iota to the other party. There is none of this I will give you A and B if you give me C and D.

    I don't know where all of this will lead, but I sure do not like looking into the future if all one majority party has to do is just change the rules to get its way. This makes your parliament idea seem like a good one.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    And you are correct to say a Majority Leader Cruz in the future will launch his own nuke, as you would say, on legislation or a SCOTUS Justice..
    It doesn't matter to me now, since the Senate was frozen in an "Aaron Burr" filibuster on everything..
    If Repubs want to change rules back to the 67 votes to raise taxes or whatever, so be it..
    I don't see a President Christie allowing it..Frankly, I wish we could fast-forward three years from now .
    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    I agree on the shame on them all. I too am more afraid of what a McConnell and a Cruz would do if they became Senate Majority Leaders with what will from now on be known as the Senator Harry Reid Option. What a gift to someone like Cruz. I do not think Senator Reid really thought this through. Cruz or even McConnell will not hesitate to use the nuclear option to get what they want. Wow! What a can of worms to open.
    Physics is Phun

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    This move is well overdue, and doesn't go far enough.

    The essence of the legislature is not to throw so much sand in the gears that a minority -- of any party -- can halt an administration in its tracks. It's unacceptable, no matter who's doing it.

    Good riddance to bad Senate rules.
    it's academic now as the genie cannot be put back in the bottle
    but i prefer a more deliberative process, where more than a simple majority is required to effect major measures
    when a greater consensus is required, there is more likely going to be more compromise involved to reach it. the passed measures are going to be more moderate and less extreme than when a lesser number is required to move legislation/approve nominees. so, my prediction is this move will allow government to operate faster, but also in a way which allows those that are more extreme to prevail. and if there is anything we do not need in government today is more extremists - on both sides of the aisle
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    This move is well overdue, and doesn't go far enough.

    The essence of the legislature is not to throw so much sand in the gears that a minority -- of any party -- can halt an administration in its tracks. It's unacceptable, no matter who's doing it.

    Good riddance to bad Senate rules.
    Okay, just a quick question since the cat is out of the bag and now all a senate majority leader has to do to get something passed or someone nominated is to pull this nuclear option. Do you feel okay with that power in say a Senator McConnell for example if the Republicans gain the senate next year which at the moment is about 50-50 or perhaps a Senator Cruz? How about a party, let's say the Republicans come 2016 they win the presidency, they already had the house and senate. Now with this nuclear option, no filibuster they could repeal Obamacare, the Obama tax hike of the top bracket, repeal anything they wanted and then pass anything they wanted. I think the filibuster if used right stopped a lot of wild swings for this country going to the extreme right and back to the extreme left, it let us have a more even course.

    That of course if it was used right and enhanced compromise between the two parties.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Senate approves nuclear option

    I'm fine with all of your questions happening Perotista, for better or worse..
    We all agree D.C. is broken, we can't just act like we should do nothing to fix it..
    The first word out of GOP mouths today after the Reid rescue was Obamacare..LOL..
    Maybe tomorrow someone in D.C. will fix something .
    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Okay, just a quick question since the cat is out of the bag and now all a senate majority leader has to do to get something passed or someone nominated is to pull this nuclear option. Do you feel okay with that power in say a Senator McConnell for example if the Republicans gain the senate next year which at the moment is about 50-50 or perhaps a Senator Cruz? How about a party, let's say the Republicans come 2016 they win the presidency, they already had the house and senate. Now with this nuclear option, no filibuster they could repeal Obamacare, the Obama tax hike of the top bracket, repeal anything they wanted and then pass anything they wanted. I think the filibuster if used right stopped a lot of wild swings for this country going to the extreme right and back to the extreme left, it let us have a more even course.

    That of course if it was used right and enhanced compromise between the two parties.
    Physics is Phun

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