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Thread: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate’ fo

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    Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    The young leaving [insert wahatever church/faith] is nothing new in history recent or dim past. When it comes down to it only a very, very small portion of the population is homosexual. Right now it's cool, a diversity and sometimes a diversion, but it's been that way before, and then it wasn't, and then it was, ad infinitum across cultures. Spirituality and religions swing to a different, longer beat.
    When in the past 2000 years has homosexuality ever been so accepted as it is now? When has the church ever had such problems with getting the young to attend? You don't have to actually be homosexual to get fed up with the ogre in effeminate clothes who goes to the pulpit and condemns people. But of course, religion being what it is, a huge number of churches, several thousands, have gotten behind gay rights in the past decade alone. That longer beat is actually quite susceptible to changing culture. It must be to survive.

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    Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    I think his opinions were more of the church as a whole and not clergy or parishoners.
    I'm a United Methodist - I would disagree. Do you have any data on this?

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    Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    I doubt it since it'll be legal in PA within a couple years.
    it doesn't matter if it's legal in Pa.

    Fundies, on the other hand, have done themselves no favor by opposing marriage equality and even just being gay so fanatically the past decade. I keep saying this. It's driving people, especially the young, away from the church in droves.
    So far one mainline denomination (the Episcopalians) have decided to conduct and approve same-sex marriages. The result was a collapse in membership. They're looking to sell their headquarters building because they can't even afford it anymore.

    When you become conformed to the world rather than renewing your mind in the Spirit, you will become of the world, and you will suffer the fate of the world - you will die. That is and will be the fate of the denominations that decide to put post-modern sexual values ahead of Scripture.

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    Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Again, who is this "they" you keep harping on. Now quote for me where I said this pastor is not a methodist from my own judgement.

    What you are saying is an absolute lie. If the Council of Bishops pulls his ordination he will not be able to be the pastor or ANY methodist church, no matter how the congregation feels about it (that is if they wish to continue being a methodist church). That's fact. You continue to call on some fact that is just your opinion of how things should work. This is an organized religion and the title pastor isn't just a nametag they give you when you take a job. You have to be ordained by the Council of Bishops to be a methodist pastor. What part of that aren't you getting? Do you need me to look it up for you. Google is your friend, find out all about the methodist faith and how you might become a pastor.
    That is correct. Baptist churches hire their own preachers. Methodist churches have their pastor assigned to them by the Bishop. If this guy loses his credentials (and it looks like he will, as he has announced he intends to), he will cease to be a Methodist minister.

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    Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    That is correct. Baptist churches hire their own preachers. Methodist churches have their pastor assigned to them by the Bishop. If this guy loses his credentials (and it looks like he will, as he has announced he intends to), he will cease to be a Methodist minister.
    again 100% false
    facts and reality still prove both of your posts wrong


    until you can magically make the Methodist churches and their pastors who support gay marriage disappear your posts will always be false

    but just for fun next time im there ill tell them know you said they arent real Methodist churches or pastors lol

    I have no clue why these facts and reality are so hard to understand
    Last edited by AGENT J; 11-21-13 at 12:00 AM.
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    Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    it doesn't matter if it's legal in Pa.
    You said his actions hurt the "activist cause" so if it's legal in PA, where he did this, guess it didn't hurt at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    So far one mainline denomination (the Episcopalians) have decided to conduct and approve same-sex marriages. The result was a collapse in membership. They're looking to sell their headquarters building because they can't even afford it anymore.
    I said fanatic opposition. There's a big difference between actively taking part in SSM and pouring millions into lying ads as the mormons did in CA, or telling the flock to go beat up their 5 year old kids like the NC pastor nut, or completely obsessing over this while ignoring birth control and 4th marriages. That does turn people away, no question about it.

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    Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    You said his actions hurt the "activist cause" so if it's legal in PA, where he did this, guess it didn't hurt at all.
    We were discussing "internal to the United Methodist Church".

    I said fanatic opposition. There's a big difference between actively taking part in SSM and pouring millions into lying ads as the mormons did in CA, or telling the flock to go beat up their 5 year old kids like the NC pastor nut, or completely obsessing over this while ignoring birth control and 4th marriages. That does turn people away, no question about it.
    I'll agree with you that there is a definite failure to apply biblical standards to divorces on the part of most mainstream denominations. That being said, the basic point remains - churches who decide to accept and support SSM thus far have only a failing model ahead of them. Your desire to paint the majority with the brush of a nutjob pastor in NC nonwithstanding.

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    Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I'll agree with you that there is a definite failure to apply biblical standards to divorces on the part of most mainstream denominations. That being said, the basic point remains - churches who decide to accept and support SSM thus far have only a failing model ahead of them. Your desire to paint the majority with the brush of a nutjob pastor in NC nonwithstanding.
    Only one example of many. I could go on and on about exorcisms, opposing "conversion therapy" bans for minors, holding week-long vigils in Hawaii, NOM, the westboro filth, booing gay soldiers etc. All that is extremism and more harmful to the church than what this guy did, marrying a single couple.

    Why do you think the pope has been making statements like "Who am i to judge?" of late? He can see plainly that support among weekly church-going catholics here is at 53%. Now if a bunch of churches here conducted gay weddings, they will hardly die off with a majority agreeing with that! Poll: majority of Catholics who attend Mass weekly support same-sex marriage, women

    Episcopalians were never very large (14th largest denomination) and got arguably too far out front on this, but i think you misattribute it. They've gone from 3.4 million to 1.9 million but most of that was in 1970-1990, before SSM was on the radar. They're been shrinking for decades.

    So my interpretation of that, and bear in my mind i do not care what happens to these churches, is they are subject to the same social trends as everything else. I don't see many advocates of infant damnation or witchcraft or what have you. Religion does change over time.

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    Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    again 100% false
    facts and reality still prove both of your posts wrong


    until you can magically make the Methodist churches and their pastors who support gay marriage disappear your posts will always be false

    but just for fun next time im there ill tell them know you said they arent real Methodist churches or pastors lol

    I have no clue why these facts and reality are so hard to understand
    My question is that if these churches you are talking about openly go against the teachings of said religion can you really say they are of that religion?

    If a group of people claim to be vegetarians but continually eat meat are they still considered vegetarian?

    The people of Westboro Baptist church come to mind, I doubt you will find any Baptists churches willing to associate with them.

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    Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Only one example of many. I could go on and on about exorcisms, opposing "conversion therapy" bans for minors, holding week-long vigils in Hawaii, NOM, the westboro filth, booing gay soldiers etc. All that is extremism and more harmful to the church than what this guy did, marrying a single couple.
    the WBC idiots? really? okay, I can play that game: Atheists like Stalin and Mao mass-murdered millions of their own people. I'd say that's a bit more extreme and harmful than a single guy booing a loaded question.

    If you want to actually discuss the issue instead of simply trying to paint your opposition with the most extreme brush possible in order to avoid having to think, let me know.

    Why do you think the pope has been making statements like "Who am i to judge?" of late? He can see plainly that support among weekly church-going catholics here is at 53%. Now if a bunch of churches here conducted gay weddings, they will hardly die off with a majority agreeing with that! Poll: majority of Catholics who attend Mass weekly support same-sex marriage, women
    The Catholic Church has no intention whatsoever of supporting SSM in any way. The Pope's statements are roughly exactly what the standard answer of mainline Christianity has been and continues to be.

    Episcopalians were never very large (14th largest denomination) and got arguably too far out front on this, but i think you misattribute it. They've gone from 3.4 million to 1.9 million but most of that was in 1970-1990, before SSM was on the radar. They're been shrinking for decades.
    SSM for them is simply part of the same long-term trend. When you seek to liberalize your theology in order to become "relevant to the world", you simply become 'of the world', and your value added ceases to be. It has happened to one extent or another in most of the mainstream denominations, which is why they are fading, and why the non-denominational churches are growing, even as the populace becomes more secular. It is a self-destructive idea for a denomination to decide to forgo Gods' kingdom for the approval of the worldly one.

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