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Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate’ fo

Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

awesome opinions but ill stick with reality
I dont personally know the Mormons but ill let those Methodist know that clownboy said they are real

What are you on about? I never claimed it is up to me. And if you don't know the mormons and haven't studied their relgion how can you claim to know facts about that religion?

fact is they are Methodist and this guy could go there and be a Methodist pastor
you can kick and scream and stomp your feet and this fact will never change:shrug:

Who is this "they" you're talking about? If he is stripped of his ordination by the Council of Bishops he is no longer a methodist pastor, anywhere. He won't be able to get a pastor assignment to any methodist church. You obviously don't know any more about the methodist faith than you do the mormon faith.
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

1.)What are you on about? I never claimed it is up to me.
2.) And if you don't know the mormons and haven't studied their relgion how can you claim to know facts about that religion?
3.) Who is this "they" you're talking about?
4.) If he is stripped of his ordination by the Council of Bishops he is no longer a methodist pastor, anywhere.
5.) He won't be able to get a pastor assignment to any methodist church.
6.) You obviously don't know any more about the methodist faith than you do the mormon faith.

1.) yes it is YOU telling them they are not when they factually are
2.) not what i said at all, lol i dont know those mormons personally so i cant tell them your opinions
3.) all the methodists i know that are fine with this pastor and do similar things with the full support of the church
4.) false he could come to churches here and be one
5.) see #5
6.) another meanignless opinion, you trying to take sides wont change the facts, sorry like i said

fact is they are Methodist and this guy could go there and be a Methodist pastor
you can kick and scream and stomp your feet and this fact will never change

do you have anything that changes this fact? anything? one factual thing
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

30 days is pretty damn funny, like they've just put a concrete number on "hellfire and brimstone." I mean if this is all leading to sodom and gomorrha v2, where is the exorcism? Where's the lifetime ban? Oh right, it's not leading to that and even the methodists who suspended him seem to realize that was all hysteric fear tactics.
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

1.) yes it is YOU telling them they are not when they factually are
2.) not what i said at all, lol i dont know those mormons personally so i cant tell them your opinions
3.) all the methodists i know that are fine with this pastor and do similar things with the full support of the church
4.) false he could come to churches here and be one
5.) see #5
6.) another meanignless opinion, you trying to take sides wont change the facts, sorry like i said

fact is they are Methodist and this guy could go there and be a Methodist pastor
you can kick and scream and stomp your feet and this fact will never change

do you have anything that changes this fact? anything? one factual thing

Again, who is this "they" you keep harping on. Now quote for me where I said this pastor is not a methodist from my own judgement.

What you are saying is an absolute lie. If the Council of Bishops pulls his ordination he will not be able to be the pastor or ANY methodist church, no matter how the congregation feels about it (that is if they wish to continue being a methodist church). That's fact. You continue to call on some fact that is just your opinion of how things should work. This is an organized religion and the title pastor isn't just a nametag they give you when you take a job. You have to be ordained by the Council of Bishops to be a methodist pastor. What part of that aren't you getting? Do you need me to look it up for you. Google is your friend, find out all about the methodist faith and how you might become a pastor.

As for momons, they have deacons. A deacon must first provide a blood sample to the Living Prophet who then evaluates and ensures you do not have the blood of Cain (which would exclude you from being a deacon). This is the method they used to keep black folks from the ranks of the deacons. Mormon sects that the Living Prophet decides are not allowed are NOT mormon, that is why those sects change their names from mormon to something else. Get an education before you spout on this stuff.
 
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Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

He has done his fellow activists no favors with his actions - if anything, he has reflected badly on them.

I doubt it since it'll be legal in PA within a couple years. Fundies, on the other hand, have done themselves no favor by opposing marriage equality and even just being gay so fanatically the past decade. I keep saying this. It's driving people, especially the young, away from the church in droves.
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

1.)Again, who is this "they" you keep harping on. Now quote for me where I said this pastor is not a methodist from my own judgement.

2.)What you are saying is an absolute lie. If the Council of Bishops pulls his ordination he will not be able to be the pastor or ANY methodist church, no matter how the congregation feels about it (that is if they wish to continue being a methodist church). That's fact. You continue to call on some fact that is just your opinion of how things should work. This is an organized religion and the title pastor isn't just a nametag they give you when you take a job. You have to be ordained by the Council of Bishops to be a methodist pastor. What part of that aren't you getting? Do you need me to look it up for you. Google is your friend, find out all about the methodist faith and how you might become a pastor.

3.)As for momons, they have deacons. A deacon must first provide a blood sample to the Living Prophet who then evaluates and ensures you do not have the blood of Cain (which would exclude you from being a deacon). This is the method they used to keep black folks from the ranks of the deacons. Mormon sects that the Living Prophet decides are not allowed are NOT mormon, that is why those sects change their names from mormon to something else. Get an education before you spout on this stuff.

1.) again YOU are claiming he cant be a Methodist pastor anymore, Methodists disagree so you tell me who it is then?

2.) 100% false and repeating it wont make it true.

3.) also false those people I was talking about are still mormons.

tell me that cool failed line about education again LMAO


so answer these what are those Mormons and the Methodists around here then? I mean there church says Methodist right on it?

sorry facts and reality defeat your post again
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

I doubt it since it'll be legal in PA within a couple years. Fundies, on the other hand, have done themselves no favor by opposing marriage equality and even just being gay so fanatically the past decade. I keep saying this. It's driving people, especially the young, away from the church in droves.

The young leaving [insert wahatever church/faith] is nothing new in history recent or dim past. When it comes down to it only a very, very small portion of the population is homosexual. Right now it's cool, a diversity and sometimes a diversion, but it's been that way before, and then it wasn't, and then it was, ad infinitum across cultures. Spirituality and religions swing to a different, longer beat.
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

1.) again YOU are claiming he cant be a Methodist pastor anymore, Methodists disagree so you tell me who it is then?

Open those eyes and read - I claimed nothing of the sort, that's YOUR strawman. I stated that if the Council of Bishops, the folks who determine such things in the entire of the methodist church, says he can no longer be a methodist pastor - THEN he is no longer a methodist pastor. Methodists do not disagree as to what the removal of ordination means. ANY church wanting to hang "Methodist" on their door must agree to certain rules, one of those is ordination. Look it up.

2.) 100% false and repeating it wont make it true.

Then why keep telling your lies about something you either have no knowledge of, or worse, are just playing games rather than admit your error?

3.) also false those people I was talking about are still mormons.

Only in the sense an excommunicated catholic is still a catholic. That's just silly.

tell me that cool failed line about education again LMAO


so answer these what are those Mormons and the Methodists around here then? I mean there church says Methodist right on it?

sorry facts and reality defeat your post again

As is your schtick, you've not spoken one fact, nor can you back any of it up. Yes, and it won't for long if they lose their charter due to having a defrocked pastor. Here's what will happen - the church will hire another ordained pastor and this fellow will either move on or find a way to regain his ordination with the Council.
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

1.)Open those eyes and read - I claimed nothing of the sort, that's YOUR strawman.
2.) I stated that if the Council of Bishops, the folks who determine such things in the entire of the methodist church, says he can no longer be a methodist pastor - THEN he is no longer a methodist pastor. Methodists do not disagree as to what the removal of ordination means.
3.)ANY church wanting to hang "Methodist" on their door must agree to certain rules, one of those is ordination. Look it up.
4.) Then why keep telling your lies about something you either have no knowledge of, or worse, are just playing games rather than admit your error?
5.) Only in the sense an excommunicated catholic is still a catholic. That's just silly.
6.)As is your schtick, you've not spoken one fact, nor can you back any of it up. Yes, and it won't for long if they lose their charter due to having a defrocked pastor. Here's what will happen - the church will hire another ordained pastor and this fellow will either move on or find a way to regain his ordination with the Council.

1.) lying about your clim wont make it go away.
2.) EXACTLY, think you for pointing it out, this is YOUR CLAIM, yet the fact remains he most certainly can be a Methodist pastor
3.) except the one i know that already support gay marriage, they dont count yet they still have Methodist on their door. You post fails again lol
4.) havent told one single lie, just pointed out facts and this seem to upset you and its hilarious
5.) if YOU say so, you dont make the rules, they are factually Mormons. What FACTUALLY says they are not . . . NOTHING. Facts and common sense 101
6.) thats an awesome opinion you have to bad its not factual

sorry facts and reality defeat your post again

also you dodged the question please answer

what are those Mormons and the Methodists around here then? I mean there church says Methodist right on it?
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

The young leaving [insert wahatever church/faith] is nothing new in history recent or dim past. When it comes down to it only a very, very small portion of the population is homosexual. Right now it's cool, a diversity and sometimes a diversion, but it's been that way before, and then it wasn't, and then it was, ad infinitum across cultures. Spirituality and religions swing to a different, longer beat.

When in the past 2000 years has homosexuality ever been so accepted as it is now? When has the church ever had such problems with getting the young to attend? You don't have to actually be homosexual to get fed up with the ogre in effeminate clothes who goes to the pulpit and condemns people. But of course, religion being what it is, a huge number of churches, several thousands, have gotten behind gay rights in the past decade alone. That longer beat is actually quite susceptible to changing culture. It must be to survive.
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

I think his opinions were more of the church as a whole and not clergy or parishoners.

:shrug: I'm a United Methodist - I would disagree. Do you have any data on this?
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

I doubt it since it'll be legal in PA within a couple years.

:shrug: it doesn't matter if it's legal in Pa.

Fundies, on the other hand, have done themselves no favor by opposing marriage equality and even just being gay so fanatically the past decade. I keep saying this. It's driving people, especially the young, away from the church in droves.

:roll: So far one mainline denomination (the Episcopalians) have decided to conduct and approve same-sex marriages. The result was a collapse in membership. They're looking to sell their headquarters building because they can't even afford it anymore.

When you become conformed to the world rather than renewing your mind in the Spirit, you will become of the world, and you will suffer the fate of the world - you will die. That is and will be the fate of the denominations that decide to put post-modern sexual values ahead of Scripture.
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

Again, who is this "they" you keep harping on. Now quote for me where I said this pastor is not a methodist from my own judgement.

What you are saying is an absolute lie. If the Council of Bishops pulls his ordination he will not be able to be the pastor or ANY methodist church, no matter how the congregation feels about it (that is if they wish to continue being a methodist church). That's fact. You continue to call on some fact that is just your opinion of how things should work. This is an organized religion and the title pastor isn't just a nametag they give you when you take a job. You have to be ordained by the Council of Bishops to be a methodist pastor. What part of that aren't you getting? Do you need me to look it up for you. Google is your friend, find out all about the methodist faith and how you might become a pastor.

That is correct. Baptist churches hire their own preachers. Methodist churches have their pastor assigned to them by the Bishop. If this guy loses his credentials (and it looks like he will, as he has announced he intends to), he will cease to be a Methodist minister.
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

That is correct. Baptist churches hire their own preachers. Methodist churches have their pastor assigned to them by the Bishop. If this guy loses his credentials (and it looks like he will, as he has announced he intends to), he will cease to be a Methodist minister.

again 100% false
facts and reality still prove both of your posts wrong


until you can magically make the Methodist churches and their pastors who support gay marriage disappear your posts will always be false :shrug:

but just for fun next time im there ill tell them know you said they arent real Methodist churches or pastors lol

I have no clue why these facts and reality are so hard to understand
 
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Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

:shrug: it doesn't matter if it's legal in Pa.

You said his actions hurt the "activist cause" so if it's legal in PA, where he did this, guess it didn't hurt at all.

:roll: So far one mainline denomination (the Episcopalians) have decided to conduct and approve same-sex marriages. The result was a collapse in membership. They're looking to sell their headquarters building because they can't even afford it anymore.

I said fanatic opposition. There's a big difference between actively taking part in SSM and pouring millions into lying ads as the mormons did in CA, or telling the flock to go beat up their 5 year old kids like the NC pastor nut, or completely obsessing over this while ignoring birth control and 4th marriages. That does turn people away, no question about it.
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

You said his actions hurt the "activist cause" so if it's legal in PA, where he did this, guess it didn't hurt at all.

We were discussing "internal to the United Methodist Church".

I said fanatic opposition. There's a big difference between actively taking part in SSM and pouring millions into lying ads as the mormons did in CA, or telling the flock to go beat up their 5 year old kids like the NC pastor nut, or completely obsessing over this while ignoring birth control and 4th marriages. That does turn people away, no question about it.

:shrug: I'll agree with you that there is a definite failure to apply biblical standards to divorces on the part of most mainstream denominations. That being said, the basic point remains - churches who decide to accept and support SSM thus far have only a failing model ahead of them. Your desire to paint the majority with the brush of a nutjob pastor in NC nonwithstanding.
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

:shrug: I'll agree with you that there is a definite failure to apply biblical standards to divorces on the part of most mainstream denominations. That being said, the basic point remains - churches who decide to accept and support SSM thus far have only a failing model ahead of them. Your desire to paint the majority with the brush of a nutjob pastor in NC nonwithstanding.

Only one example of many. I could go on and on about exorcisms, opposing "conversion therapy" bans for minors, holding week-long vigils in Hawaii, NOM, the westboro filth, booing gay soldiers etc. All that is extremism and more harmful to the church than what this guy did, marrying a single couple.

Why do you think the pope has been making statements like "Who am i to judge?" of late? He can see plainly that support among weekly church-going catholics here is at 53%. Now if a bunch of churches here conducted gay weddings, they will hardly die off with a majority agreeing with that! Poll: majority of Catholics who attend Mass weekly support same-sex marriage, women

Episcopalians were never very large (14th largest denomination) and got arguably too far out front on this, but i think you misattribute it. They've gone from 3.4 million to 1.9 million but most of that was in 1970-1990, before SSM was on the radar. They're been shrinking for decades.

So my interpretation of that, and bear in my mind i do not care what happens to these churches, is they are subject to the same social trends as everything else. I don't see many advocates of infant damnation or witchcraft or what have you. Religion does change over time.
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

again 100% false
facts and reality still prove both of your posts wrong


until you can magically make the Methodist churches and their pastors who support gay marriage disappear your posts will always be false :shrug:

but just for fun next time im there ill tell them know you said they arent real Methodist churches or pastors lol

I have no clue why these facts and reality are so hard to understand

My question is that if these churches you are talking about openly go against the teachings of said religion can you really say they are of that religion?

If a group of people claim to be vegetarians but continually eat meat are they still considered vegetarian?

The people of Westboro Baptist church come to mind, I doubt you will find any Baptists churches willing to associate with them.
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

Only one example of many. I could go on and on about exorcisms, opposing "conversion therapy" bans for minors, holding week-long vigils in Hawaii, NOM, the westboro filth, booing gay soldiers etc. All that is extremism and more harmful to the church than what this guy did, marrying a single couple.

:lol: the WBC idiots? really? :mrgreen: okay, I can play that game: Atheists like Stalin and Mao mass-murdered millions of their own people. I'd say that's a bit more extreme and harmful than a single guy booing a loaded question.

If you want to actually discuss the issue instead of simply trying to paint your opposition with the most extreme brush possible in order to avoid having to think, let me know.

Why do you think the pope has been making statements like "Who am i to judge?" of late? He can see plainly that support among weekly church-going catholics here is at 53%. Now if a bunch of churches here conducted gay weddings, they will hardly die off with a majority agreeing with that! Poll: majority of Catholics who attend Mass weekly support same-sex marriage, women

The Catholic Church has no intention whatsoever of supporting SSM in any way. The Pope's statements are roughly exactly what the standard answer of mainline Christianity has been and continues to be.

Episcopalians were never very large (14th largest denomination) and got arguably too far out front on this, but i think you misattribute it. They've gone from 3.4 million to 1.9 million but most of that was in 1970-1990, before SSM was on the radar. They're been shrinking for decades.

:shrug: SSM for them is simply part of the same long-term trend. When you seek to liberalize your theology in order to become "relevant to the world", you simply become 'of the world', and your value added ceases to be. It has happened to one extent or another in most of the mainstream denominations, which is why they are fading, and why the non-denominational churches are growing, even as the populace becomes more secular. It is a self-destructive idea for a denomination to decide to forgo Gods' kingdom for the approval of the worldly one.
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

:shrug: I'm a United Methodist - I would disagree. Do you have any data on this?

Although there is an overseeing home office, each church in it's own way is an independent unit with a great deal of diversity upon the personalities in each individual church. MOST denominations try to allow as much diversity and tolerance as possible within their base doctrines -certainly among the members.
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

Although there is an overseeing home office, each church in it's own way is an independent unit with a great deal of diversity upon the personalities in each individual church.

In the United Methodist Church? There is absolutely a series of oversight functions - every Pastor is directly overseen by a District Superintendent who is overseen in turn by a Bishop who has the responsibility of assigning and moving pastors around his conference. In turn, the Bishops answer to the Council of Bishops. Churches are not independent in the matter of doctrine.

I've spent about 30 years in the United Methodist Church, and am a friend, a son, a grandson, and a great-grandson of UMC clergy. I went to a Methodist College where my religious studies professor was a former President of the Council of Bishops. Now, I'm not pretending to be an expert, but what, exactly, is your experience here?

MOST denominations try to allow as much diversity and tolerance as possible within their base doctrines -certainly among the members.

Well a "base doctrine" of the UMC is the Wesleyan Quadrilateral - which states that once you toss out Scripture as the primary means for identifying Christian truth, you are wrong. The Book of Discipline and our pronouncements are equally clear - spokespersons of the United Methodist Church are not authorized to publicly approve of the homosexual lifestyle, which is incompatible with Christian teaching.

The UMC Statement on Human Sexuality

....We affirm that all persons are individuals of sacred worth, created in the image of God. All persons need the ministry of the Church in their struggles for human fulfillment, as well as the spiritual and emotional care of a fellowship that enables reconciling relationships with God, with others, and with self. The United Methodist Church does not condone the practice of homosexuality and considers this practice incompatible with Christian teaching. We affirm that God’s grace is available to all. We will seek to live together in Christian community, welcoming, forgiving, and loving one another, as Christ has loved and accepted us. We implore families and churches not to reject or condemn lesbian and gay members and friends. We commit ourselves to be in ministry for and with all persons....
 
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Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

The Catholic Church has no intention whatsoever of supporting SSM in any way. The Pope's statements are roughly exactly what the standard answer of mainline Christianity has been and continues to be.

A majority of catholics here support it and in time, so will the church authority. There's a clear trajectory, it's amazing you can't see it.

:shrug: SSM for them is simply part of the same long-term trend. When you seek to liberalize your theology in order to become "relevant to the world", you simply become 'of the world', and your value added ceases to be. It has happened to one extent or another in most of the mainstream denominations, which is why they are fading, and why the non-denominational churches are growing, even as the populace becomes more secular. It is a self-destructive idea for a denomination to decide to forgo Gods' kingdom for the approval of the worldly one.

Here is the issue i have with it. I was dragged to a UMC growing up, and you know those signs they keep outside. One time it said "No matter what you've done, all are welcome here." Well then you go inside and this guy is ranting about the 'homo agenda' and it's just clear they don't really mean what's on the sign. I can't take it seriously when they will welcome drug addicts, prostitutes, criminals of all types, and this is what they choose to obsess over. Especially when meth use is so huge out there, they could do a lot more to combat that, yet i never heard anything along those lines.
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

When in the past 2000 years has homosexuality ever been so accepted as it is now? When has the church ever had such problems with getting the young to attend? You don't have to actually be homosexual to get fed up with the ogre in effeminate clothes who goes to the pulpit and condemns people. But of course, religion being what it is, a huge number of churches, several thousands, have gotten behind gay rights in the past decade alone. That longer beat is actually quite susceptible to changing culture. It must be to survive.

The 1300s, the 1960s and many times inbetween, study some history. Why the heck do you think the catholic church put together a Bible and made satan front and center the big boogieman - to put butts in pews. Homosexuality has been largely ignored by many non-western culture throught the last 2000 years. But why the last two thousand years? Are you thinking that's the whole of human history?
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

A majority of catholics here support it and in time, so will the church authority. There's a clear trajectory, it's amazing you can't see it.

A majority of Catholics living in America support allowing the State to issue marriage licenses to homosexual couples, which does not mean that they support their church doing so. Nor does the Catholic Church embrace a bottom-up Development of Doctrine or Theology. Nor are American Catholics anything close to a controlling interest in the Catholic Church. What you are describing is.... not plausible.

Here is the issue i have with it. I was dragged to a UMC growing up, and you know those signs they keep outside. One time it said "No matter what you've done, all are welcome here." Well then you go inside and this guy is ranting about the 'homo agenda' and it's just clear they don't really mean what's on the sign. I can't take it seriously when they will welcome drug addicts, prostitutes, criminals of all types, and this is what they choose to obsess over. Especially when meth use is so huge out there, they could do a lot more to combat that, yet i never heard anything along those lines.

:shrug: then you've been going to the wrong churches. We have homosexual pastors in the UMC, for cripes sakes. I don't know about the "homo agenda", I've gone to quite a few UMC churches and I don't think I've ever heard the phrase - and I was in Alabama. Methinks you are continuing to paint a strawman because you don't want to address the actual church.
 
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